Training Next-Gen Advisors In Business Development By Getting Really Clear About Who They Serve And How They Help: #FASuccess Ep 494 With Kristin Harad

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Resources Featured In This Episode:

• Kristin Harad: LinkedIn
• Full Advisor Coaching Clarify Your Ideal Client And Lead Generation Worksheet – Download (docx)
• Kitces Report: What Actually Contributes To Advisor Wellbeing
• Vistage
• Entrepreneurs' Organization
• #FASuccess Ep 211: How A Clear Marketing Focus Can Make The Sales Process Easier, With Kristin Harad
• "Give to Grow" by Mo Bunnell
• "The Snowball System" by Mo Bunnell

Full Transcript:

Michael: Welcome, Kristin Harad, to the "Financial Advisor Success" podcast.

Kristin: Thanks, Michael. It's great to be here again.

Michael: I'm really excited to have you back. You joined us a few years ago talking about, I guess, like, all things advisor marketing. And now, we get to continue the journey a little bit more into not just marketing, but good old business development, which I find has become a really interesting challenge for the industry, particularly newer, dare I say, like, younger advisors coming into the industry. So, if I go back, like, 20 or 30 years ago, we were a very...I guess, like, the label was, "eat what you kill" industry. If you couldn't go out there and find your own food, find your own clients, there was no one to pay you for your advice, and you didn't get to eat, and you'd starve. You didn't get enough clients to make enough money to get to stay in the business.

So, "successful" advisors tended to be the people who were either natural born salesmen or, at least, close enough to being a natural born salesperson with a little bit of sales training from their firm, they could excel and survive. And if they were successful enough, five to ten years into selling products, they got to go back and learn technical skills of financial planning and get their CFP marks and involve their businesses from product sales to financial planning advice.

And I find today's environment is very different now. Now, we have undergraduate degrees in financial planning. You can major in financial planning before you even get your first job. So, people come in today with way more technical skills on day one than most advisors in the past had after, like, five to ten years. And now, they're increasingly coming with career tracks that leverage those skills. So, support advisor roles, associate advisor roles, paraplanner roles, moving up to service advisor roles with firms that may, like, have strong internal marketing and need advisors to serve clients they're marketing to, or perhaps firms that have hiring advisors or doing M&A [Mergers and Acquisitions] where they need service advisors to take over these existing books of business. And then, like, maybe someday after five or ten years, you learn to do business development.

Kristin: That sounds about right.

Michael: Well, I would say 360, that would start where we were, 180 degree turn from the path where it used to be, you learned business development to survive and you got technical skills later. And now, you learn technical skills to get salary and business development later. And it's turning out, like, this new version. Well, it's increasingly popular for firms because there's a lot of efficiencies to scaling an advisory firm if you've got strong marketing processes and you're staffing service advisors in.

But then eventually, when they say, "But how do we start turning on the growth for advisors the way 'we grew' in the past to get here?" They can't seem to figure out how to turn on the switch. Like, how do we get next generation advisors up to speed on business development with founders who sometimes don't even really know how to teach it because they were just kind of natural to get out there and it worked. And so, I'm excited to get to talk about, like, how do you do this well? Like, how do you actually get next generation advisors up to speed on doing business development, especially when that's not the role or the path that they started out with in the firm?

How Advisory Firm Business Development Has Changed Over Time [05:51]

Kristin: Well, that is the big question, right, Michael? So, I think, I mean, and I'm excited to dive into this with you today because it is a fascinating change. And the way you described it is right on. And that's what I'm hearing from these essential, like, rainmaker founders, right? The ones who have pretty much built the business through, like, handshake, smiles, and phone calls. And they've done an incredible job. And to your point...

Michael: Handshake, smiles, and phone calls.

Kristin: That's right, yeah. Well, you know, I mean, you would just, you know, pick up the phone or meet someone at a golf outing or something and have a conversation and off you went.

Michael: Well, I mean, it certainly echoes for me. You know, I started in insurance firm many years ago. And the managing partner of the firm had become a managing partner because he'd won agent of the year at the company, like, number one salesperson. And I mean, still to this day, one of the best natural born salespeople I've ever met in my life. Like, I mean, he started selling insurance door-to-door knocking in the 1960s.

Kristin: Oh, my goodness, yes.

Michael: And just, I mean, he's one of these people. He's going to knock on your door, and three to five minutes later, you're going to be standing in your living room talking about whatever is above your mantle and thinking, "I'm not sure who this dude is and why I let him in my house, but he seems lovely. And we're having a great conversation." Like, he was so gifted. And so, when he had to train us newbies how to do business development and be more successful, his pearl of wisdom was, just get out there.

Kristin: Yeah. And I think that's the frustration a lot of the newer advisors feel, right? Because they're like, "Yes, but what am I supposed to do? I don't actually know what that means."

Michael: Jack's advice, like, "Well, you just get out there and good things happen," because that's what happened to Jack and shaped his whole career.

Kristin: Yeah. And, I mean, that is the frustration I'm seeing. And then you forget the other piece, which is I don't know about you, Michael, but I don't think too many people are going to let someone knocking on the door in their house these days. I mean, it's really not only has the advisor flipped in that way and, like, we're getting people going to school and learning and training and coming out with a degree that allows them then to write a financial plan, but consumers are different too, clients. They have more access to any information. They get anything they want online. There's so many other solutions now than there used to be. They're more educated on it or can easily research. And frankly, they've been burned or seen, you know, scams, scandals, things happening. They're much more resistant and cynical.

So, you know, you got to overcome all of that. Plus, you have to learn how to actually have a conversation and get past that old school fear of... I mean, the new people coming in or even, you know, service advisors who are moving up, they're so nervous about having to sell someone and feel like all squirmy and icky right around, "I don't want to sell someone," right? And so, sometimes it's, like, just getting past that piece is hard enough, you know, especially when someone says, "Just go out, just go ahead, you can do it. Go on out and drum up some business."

Michael: I mean, as I think you aptly highlighted, like, it doesn't work that way anymore from when you were doing it, Mr. or Mrs., unfortunately, usually Mr. Founder. I mean, you know, I've been in long enough now. Like, I've felt a version of this myself, like, remembering how brutal it was to try to do business development in my 20s. And I mean, for me, it was so awful. I sought to get out of business development roles. Like, I tried to move my career towards service advisor and internal roles early on because I couldn't do the business development. And now, I'm at a very different place of my career and life journey.

And, you know, now, I'm blessed with the wonderful reality that people I went to school with 25 to 30 years ago also went on entrepreneurial journeys, made businesses, had successful exits and, like, give me a call with an eight figure portfolio and say, "Michael, I see you've been doing advising things for the past 25 years. Can you help me out?" Which is an actual prospect call I had at one point a few years ago. And it's like, okay, so now, I'm at a certain stage where I still need to know how to facilitate a sales conversation, like, to invite that person in and say, "Well, let me talk a little bit more about what we do and understand how we can help you and try to make that fit." But, you know, now, I'm in the wonderfully fortunate position. I don't have to do prospecting the same way because I built, you know, a brand for myself and a reputation for myself that completely changed the equation.

And just I see a number of founder peers have versions of that where they say like, "Well, I'm still doing business development today." I'm like, you know, "I'm out at the golf club shooting holes with people. And I brought in $17 million of business last year." And I'm like, "Yeah, because they've known you for 25 years and watch you build your firm over 25 years and build a lot of trust in you over the past 25 years." I'm like, "I'm not 25 years in as a new advisor coming in. I don't have your credibility and gray hair. If I go and show up at your golf club, they're not going to do business with me the way that they do business with you."

So, I feel like there's some challenges from both ends of, I think as we'll talk about, like, you know, there are skills and things that I think newer advisors coming in learning to do business development need to learn, can learn. You can do this. There is a structure to how to do this and accomplish it well. Like, and the way that they have to learn to do it and the way they have to prospect to be successful really does not look like most founders who built successful firms today and what they were doing 20 to 30 years ago in a different world at a different time with different dynamics, and doesn't map very well onto what they might still be very successfully doing today. Which is really different when you're doing it with some gray hair and 20-plus years of credibility in your in your community.

Kristin: Right. And you literally have had the conversation with so many different people, and you have case study after case study of success stories, and you know the problems that are coming up and you can articulate answers and have examples for everything. And frankly, I too, am very comfortable now in the sort of, you know, "selling" because I really am just looking to see, am I able to help someone solve their problem? Am I a good fit for them? Yes or no? And the stakes don't feel as high to me because I'm very comfortable and have enough years of experience and resilience to know that if this one doesn't work out, the next one will. You know, I don't get caught up in that. But when you're younger, I'd say newer in in that role, whether you're a career changer or just out of out of school, it feels like every conversation you have is, like, make or break. And the stakes really aren't there.

And that's what I've started teaching when I'm teaching advisors. You know, at first I'm teaching them just to listen in their in their conversations. And we can get into kind of the process of how that works. But really, if you're in a role where you're speaking with a client, even as an associate advisor or, you know, a servicing advisor, just listen for the language of where you might even be able to ask, you know, queue up a referral or tee up having a referral conversation just because you've already had a relationship with someone.

And I just have advisors listen for those potential entry points. Where when someone's talking with you and they say, "Oh, my goodness, my sister really needs this. I wish she would talk to you." Okay, you might be too afraid to say, "Well, have her call me," you know, but then listen. And I literally have teams who are particularly reticent, like, write down, what are the cues that you heard in your conversation that might have given you an opening to have a conversation? I don't even need you to say anything. I just want you to hear the cue. And that's kind of breaking it down to, like, a very basic fundamental. Let's just give you an idea of what you might possibly be looking for.

Why Branding Is At The Heart Of Successful Business Development [14:08]

Michael: So, I guess, I am craving now a little bit more structure of, so how should we be doing this? Like, how should we be teaching it and then thinking about it for people who don't have a background in business development, don't necessarily feel comfortable doing business development, probably didn't get into this to go prospect and find clients?

Kristin: Right, right. So, when a firm leadership usually come to me, the rainmaker or the leadership team, who's like, "Okay, we have all these…we have advisors who want to become lead advisors, who want to have equity, who want to move in their career path, and so, we're asking them to do business development." I'll first ask the...you know, there's kind of an onus on the on the leadership team as well. I'll first ask about their marketing and their brand strategy, which may sound like, "Well, what do you mean?" If you don't have a strong marketing foundation for the firm, it's really hard to get advisors out there messaging, communicating, sharing what they need to share without having some fundamental foundational things in place, right? So...

Michael: So, can you talk more about that? Like, what are the what are the things? What are we supposed to be doing as a firm, particularly because my channeling my business or a developer, channeling my inner Jack Matthews from earlier. Like, Kristin, what marketing brand strategy? Like, get out there and talk to people?

Kristin: Yes. So, what is it that you are saying? What is it that someone has to say? And to be able to articulate. Well, first and foremost, I mean, this goes way back to, who are you supposed to go out and find? They're like, "Go get someone." Okay, well, who is that? Who is a good fit for the firm? Who is a good fit for you, the advisor? Where is it that you can have a connection? Where is it that you can resonate? So, very clearly, I mean, when you look at the fundamentals of brand strategy, it's positioning - what's your place in the market, people - who you're trying to attract in, and personality - what is your vibe, messaging, the way you say what you do, and how do you show up in the world?

And if you as a firm don't know what that is, it's really hard for you to get an advisor to feel really strong to go out there and communicate. So, I do like to... I mean, I don't usually get the luxury of being able to work on both at the same time. That would be ideal to be like, "Okay, we have a really strong brand. We have all the tools and templates and messaging and everything we need, and we can train the advisors." So, I start with, when I'm working with an advisor, a team of advisors, I'm going to start fundamentally with, "Okay, if you're going to go out in the world, who is it that you want to attract?" And it gets back to the fundamental, ideal client. I can't do any marketing or business development if I don't know who it is I want to reach. So, I actually...

Michael: Okay, but I'm channeling my, you know, inner, young, desirous, desperate-to-grow advisor. I'm like, "Kristin, I want anybody who will say yes."

Kristin: Of course, of course.

Michael: "And give me their money." Like, I'm not in the luxury position to be able to choose.

Kristin: Yeah, but how do you find that any person? Like, how do we know where to even look? And let me just say, as we're looking at people who want to learn business development and grow, it's not always just people straight out of school. It's also people who might have been working in other roles who want to move up into a different position in the firm. You know, maybe they've been a client service associate or they've been a servicing advisor. So, ultimately, I always tell people, we need to have a profile of someone you're looking for so we know when we see them, so we know where to look for them.

And so, if you're, you know, new in the business, the one of the questions is, like, where does your firm excel? Where have you had experience in the in the market that your firm has, you know, some client success stories? Some ways that you can...especially when you're younger, you're going to have a hard time because you don't have the track record. So, you need to have some success stories or testimonials or various content pieces that you as an advisor can leverage to back you up so that you can kind of pull out and say, "All right, I feel confident talking to you, Mr. Jones," who is a HENRY [High Earner Not Rich Yet], you know, who's dealing in a tech company and who has all these different RSU's [Restricted Stock Units] and options and things they need to think about.

Well, maybe I as an advisor have been an associate advisor on some transactions. At least I can have some client success stories from the company that I can bring in that I can say, "Hey, yes, our firm, we deal with X, Y, and Z. We had a client at Google who did this" or, "…at OpenAI who did this." And we and that person's able to draw on assets or resources from the company to be able to help boost their confidence in the messaging while they're out there. Does that make sense?

Michael: It does. I mean, I get the idea of, you know, I can't say I've worked with dozens of successful Google executives, but at least, I can say we have worked with dozens of Google executives and pull out some material for my firm to help validate that of success stories, testimonials of the firm.

Kristin: It's hard. It's a leap, for sure. I mean, and it depends again on who is it you're trying to attract in. And if your firm has multiple types of clients, and they're really looking to you to help bring in that next generation, then it's really about... I take them through kind of an exercise of how they might identify or find people who fit their profile. But I really do... I mean, it goes all the way back to, like, when I first got into marketing. I mean, I don't know how you start a firm if you don't know who you're trying to attract in. And then I don't know how you continue to market a firm if you don't know where you're going to direct your resources. So, you have to pick someone. And so, it could be someone like you. It could be someone that you aspire to work with who's perhaps just a phase ahead of you that you've had enough exposure to in the current client and in the role that you've been in that you feel confident. But we do have to start with that, with at least, having a sense of who you might find.

Michael: So, I feel like the challenge I see in a lot of firms, I mean, as you commented earlier, often, at least, this starts with some version of, like, who does the firm serve? Where does the firm excel? And I just think of all the conversations I've had with younger, up and coming advisors over the years with remarkable consistency, something the effect of, you know, "Our firm has gotten really good at million-dollar retirees and I'm 24. I don't know million dollar retirees. I get why my founder knows a lot of pre-retirees with a million dollars because they're at his golf club. Those are not my circles, and I don't know how I'm supposed to go and do business development with the types of clients that the firm serves because that's the founder's peer set. That's not my peer set."

Kristin: Right. And that is true, and that can be a challenge. And I think that's where advisors, especially more junior... I mean, if you're talking younger, again, I find that it's not always younger. It's people just at different stages of their development. So, when you do get in that situation where it is a younger person, right, the very classic, "I want to move up in the world. And how am I going to attract people in with my 20-something face and my 5 years of experience," right?

Michael: Well, I grew the goatee so I could have a 30-something, something I used to do.

Kristin: Exactly. Well, I mean, you really do then have to start building out that depth of resource to back you up. So, it's, one, getting the message down around the firm's value, the firm's history, what you bring to the table. I mean, you have education. And I just had this conversation at a conference last week with a sort of senior, junior partnership, and it was the dad, and then his son is coming into the firm. And it's really about...and I even asked them, I said, "Well, how is it that you are trying to...? How are you able to share your value proposition and what you're doing?" And he will reference the fact that the firm has advisors of different degrees of expertise, and that you get the benefit of working with this team of people with the various advisors.

They're not putting the sole responsibility on this particular person to have his book and that that's the only person who works on that account. In the cases where people bring me in, it's more about people coming in and conveying the firm's value, the firm's differentiation, what you have to offer, and showing resourcefulness as a person in that role. And I think that's different than a long time ago, where it's like, "Hey, I have my book, you have your book. This is how it's done." Granted, that still exists out there, but really, we're looking at when I'm brought in to work with people, it's about, how can you help our advisors take over, you know, be primed and ready for the next generation of leadership? Which is about keeping the firm sustained and growing and having, of course, individual success, but also, maintaining the service and values and missions of the firm.

So, that's really more the model I'm looking at. I mean, if you're there saying, "Okay, I got to build a book of business and I'm all by myself," and that's what it is. And then the guy across the hall, he's doing his own, and we're competing. It's going to be harder. You're going to have to come up with your own way of showing value and what you can bring to the table there.

Michael: Well, I'm struck in how you're framing this. That for the advisors coming up in sort of like mid to large sized established firms, right, where you're not hanging your own shingle, I guess, to our point, like, you are the next generation advisor who came in and was an associate, and then grew to service clients, and now, you're trying to figure out business development. Which means there's a certain, like, size and depth to the firm that you're in, if that's been your path. That there's this other asset there of the strength and depth and credibility of your firm. That is a thing you actually get to use in this process to build and burnish your own credibility in a way that doesn't apply when you're solo, the way that doesn't apply when you're getting started, but actually, is a very valid thing here.

Kristin: Yes. And it used to be like you were talking about your insurance days or Jim, or whoever your boss was.

Michael: Jack. Good, old Jack.

Kristin: Jack. Sorry, Jack. And how, you know, back when business development was cold calls, smiling, dialing, all of that, it was backed by a really strong brand, usually.

Michael: That is true. I...

Kristin: Whether it's JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley, Shari Schiffman.

Michael: I joined New England because they had a fantastic disability insurance policy for physicians. Like, you could get in front of a physician. Which was very challenging for me, but, yeah, I could explain, you know, our company has one of the best disability policies for physicians on the market because of our own occupation destinations and all the different things. And then, like, the bells and whistles come out. But it was very anchored in, I represent a company that has great local products. Like, that was a thing then. And to some extent, it feels like that part went away when everyone became open architecture. I know, although someone's got a proprietary shelf, but our firm has this experience and these experts. Like, that's still a version of it today.

Kristin: Yes. Yeah. And actually see that as still a problem in the ultra-high net worth and high net worth market there because the established brands are so focused on pouring money into that area that the independents who are going there are up against the big brands there. But I do think a lot of independent advisors, you know, they just have to find, what can they draw on? And honestly, if they're solo and they're all by themselves and it's all about, how am I tying to specific problems that I can solve and the emotions that touch that? And then how can I connect with them to show them that I am able to, our firm, whether it's just me and my team, or the firm as a whole, how are we able to help you with that problem, solve that problem? I mean, that's all that business development is. It's finding people with a certain set of problems that you're able to solve and showing them the connection of how working together will help them achieve their dreams, overcome their problem. And how much is that worth to them, and what does it cost?

Michael: I really like just how you framed that. Like, business development is just finding people with a certain problem, showing them that you can solve it, and that working together, they can overcome the problem and finding out what that's worth to them.

Kristin: Right. And there's a value of that. And it gets beyond the markers of, are you too young? Are you too old? Have I heard of you before? Have I not? Yes, you're still going to fight that. I mean, you're going to be up that. It's going to be a lot harder, but that's where you try to...when I work with advisors and teams, I want them to understand, all right, who do you want to attract in? What are the pain points, worries, aspirations, desires, all of that? How do you match in values? What kinds of things are you looking for that you can really align with?

Showing Ideal-Fit Clients How You've Solved Problems For People Like Them [28:41]

Kristin: But then almost out of the gate in working with teams, I'm asking them to collect client success stories, even if they're not their own, but success stories for the firm that show a specific problem that you solved and the emotion that came out of it. And that could come through any kind of related story from any advisor in your group. I like to have this library. And this is an ideal world, but people are starting to put these together for me. Sometimes they have it on the website, but a library of content that they've created where there's, like, specific articles related to problems for business owners or divorcees or widows or retirees.

And you have these in folders like, "Okay, these are the articles we have to address those problems. Here's a podcast episode we did on that. Here's a video we've developed." And so, you have this library of resources that advisors can use and share as follow-up to meetings that they have with people, that they can show how they're relatable. I mean, you just really are looking to make that connection and continue to show that you understand them.

Michael: So, I guess, help me understand a little bit further, just as you're talking about this library of content of problems you solved. "Kristin, I don't have one of those. That sounds like a neat library." Like, just take me a little bit deeper. I mean, what literally am I creating here? Like, is this a page? Is this ten pages? Is this a narrative? Does the client record it? Do I record it? Am I, like, implicating testimonial rules here? Like, can you just, like, make this all...

Kristin: Yeah, some of all of those things, right?

Michael: Like, what am I doing?

Kristin: Sure, sure. So, first, look, what I like to say is do an audit of, like, whatever your company already has. So, if you're part of a firm and your company...this is where it helps to have a centralized marketing person who can put this together for you. But if you don't and you're looking to say, "All right, I as an advisor, I'm really going to get out there and do the work. What can I do?" It's looking to say, "All right, let's see. I am going to go do an audit of all of our articles that we posted on our website in the past two years or three years and see what exists."

So, what I like to do is have first identify your top, like, three or four client scenarios. So, what are the common things you're solving? And depending on how big your firm is, you might have different ones. So, it might be, like, business owner approaching exit, executive near retirement, maybe it's divorce. And then a, like, complex family planning, you know, people, HENRYs who are in their 40s who are making a lot of money, but are still, like, accumulating. And then what I like to do is have them look for one, two, maybe three pieces of content for each one. So, it might be, like I said, articles.

So, you might say, "Oh, great, well, we have this comprehensive article on our blog about all the things you need to know as a business owner before you exit. Great. All right, we have that. We have a case study that we developed for a presentation around the executive near retirement. So, we have a case study. I could send that case study to someone if they wanted to know." And it might be a page on your website. It might be a blog article. Maybe your CEO was a guest on a podcast and did an episode around preparing a business for exit. "All right, great. We have a link to that." So, that's something you could send as a follow up. And then maybe you have kind of a one pager that you've developed, a piece of collateral that essentially says, "Hey, this is how we help business owners approaching exit. These are some of the common questions we see. And this is how the process works." So, you could send that out.

So, we're really looking to see the various scenarios that your firm deals with, so that when you do meet people like that, you're not just saying, "Hey, great, we can help you with that." You might be having a conversation, but you can then follow up with something of value. Because that's where I find a lot of people go, "Great. I want to follow up with that person, but I don't know what to send them." And we want to show them that you have situational content that's related to them and you'll take it and send it to them.

Michael: Okay, that helps connect the dots to me a little bit more. So, ultimately, I'm doing prospect meetings, right? I'm talking to someone who is a business owner thinking about exit and saying, "We'd love the opportunity to help you further. Hey, after this meeting, let me send you a little more information about some of the ways that our firm is helping business owners just like you." And then I'm going to send like, "Oh, let's send them the article we did on business owners before exit and the guest podcast from our CEO and the one pager that has some of the interesting questions."

Kristin: Yeah, you'd space those out, though. Don't overwhelm. These are touchpoints over time, right?, so you'll pick one. You'll be like, "Okay, this is the most relevant. I'll establish credibility because I'm a younger person and I'll have my CEO talking about the interview." So, that person sort of seemed like a little worried that I was young, so I'll send this to show them, like, "Hey, our firm is great at this. Here's something you'll find interesting." And then, you know, you wait, see if you get response. Then another week passed. Let me check in again, "Here's something else of value." So, it's a little bit about small amounts along the way. I don't know if you've ever read anything by Mo Bunnell.

Michael: No, I have not.

Kristin: He wrote "The Snowball System", and then he recently wrote "Give to Grow". And he talks a lot about, like, giving things in small amounts to solidify relationship, to educate, to help people understand, to move people along in the process. And it's both really interesting books on business development and sales conversations. So, I highly recommend both of those.

Michael: So, look, for folks who are listening, this is, and you can't write down books while you're driving or jogging, or whatever, you're going to listen. So, this is episode 494. So, if you go to kitces.com/494, we'll have links out in the show notes section for "Give to Grow" and some other reading materials.

Kristin: Yeah, "The Snowball System", both very good on that. But let me give you, like, an example. I have a real client situation where this came up with the situational content, library concept. So, I was coaching a team of advisors. So, we had multiple people on the call. And, you know, none of them had done business development. They've all been in a servicing role and, you know, they want to advance in the firm and the firm needs the next generation. So, they are in conversations with clients on a regular basis.

And in this call, three different advisors said to the group, "I have someone who is retiring in the next few months or they already retired, and their 401(k) is still at the employer. And they have been very resistant to move it over. And then so I was like, "Okay, well, let's talk through, what would you say to them? What are the reasons why someone would move it over?" You know, and they were articulating...you know, they wanted to know how to have this conversation because they were getting resistance on, "Well, I don't know. I was told I should keep it over here, and I like to keep things separate."

So, then I was like, "Well, let me hear." And one person said a few things. Someone else said a few other things. And then I was like, "Do we have a central one pager that talks about all the reasons why you want to consolidate your 401(k) with your....roll it over into an IRA when you retire?" And it was kind of like just blank stares of, like, no. So, each one of them, every time they have that conversation, has to remember all of the reasons that make it compelling, which may not be that difficult to make, but each one of them had something different to say. And I was like, "Well, how simple would it be if we had just one pager that said, 'You know what? I know this can be a decision that people get hung up on. It's very common. It's something we deal with a lot. And let me send this over to you now that we've had this conversation, just so you can take a look and make your choice from there.'"

I mean, business development does not importantly have to come from someone new, right? These are $1 million, $2 million, $3 million 401(k)s that you roll that in when your typical client is a $1 million to $5 million client that's significant to the particular RIAs. So, this is where sometimes the content comes in for even just current clients that you're talking to who don't realize that, "Oh, by the way, you help me with that as well. I had no idea," or, "You can help with a divorce? My sister's getting a divorce." Okay, so that's when, you know, you're kind of setting things up to give an advisor a tool or a resource to be able to draw on that helps reinforce the expertise of the firm and just how you can help them. You're making it easy for them by having these marketing pieces. Which is why I like to work in conjunction with marketing and business development at the same time. But I'm not always that fortunate.

Exercises To Generate A List Of Potential Good-Fit Contacts [38:03]

Michael: So, now, help me understand a little bit more of, what can I say to leverage my firm? Like, I get now, the firm's giving me some content pieces to show the firm has expertise even if I look a little young. Because I'm trying to build my credibility and leverage the firm's credibility for myself. As you noted earlier, like, I can say this, I can communicate this. So, like, how do I communicate this, I don't know, so it doesn't come across campy, so I'm not throwing myself under the bus in the process…"Well, clearly, I look really young, but our firm's been around for 17 years, so you can totally trust us, even though I look young." Clearly not a good way to deliver it. Like, what am I saying? How do I try to actually leverage my firm's credibility in a constructive way?

Kristin: Yeah, I think that's when you flip it back to, what are the problems the person is experiencing and how you can help, right? So, you're talking with someone and you say, "You know how you've been saving up year after year and really working hard and putting your money aside so you can be prepared when you do finally get to retire..." "Oh, yeah, yeah." And they're, like, nodding along. It's like, "Well, what we actually help you with then is taking that money and then turning it into a paycheck for you during retirement so that you are getting the regular payments. And we're helping you figure out which of the accounts is most suited for tax and which one is most suited for…" charitable giving, etc. So, you're talking about why it matters to them and you turn it away from you because it's not about you per se. It's about what are you solving for them. It's always about what are you solving for them.

And they may very well say, "Yeah, but how much have you done this?" And you say, "Look I have my CFP. I've done this or that. I've been entrenched in this. I've worked with a number of clients on supporting them through this transition." And that's where we're able to bring in the expertise of the senior advisors who have been trained by the founder. I mean, it's really about doing the best you can to refocus the conversation on them and their problem. And this is where being on, you know, developing a digital presence as well and having a strong LinkedIn profile where you're sharing, where you have articles and content and potentially some, you know, videos or educational pieces on there that help solidify your expertise can be useful.

I mean, you essentially want to show up as professional as possible. You are definitely facing an uphill climb when you're younger. But if it's just a matter of you, you know, practicing and getting the messaging down, many people can find younger people very energizing and engaging. And it's just a question of showing professionalism. That's where follow up comes in really well, because if you can consistently follow up, pick up the telephone, reach out to people in the way that they want to receive communication, you can get past some of those barriers. Because, you know, you can't change your age, so you have to work around it in other ways.

Michael: And all of this, to me, that just keeps iterating around, they're all content pieces and credibility markers that you're good with this clientele, like, this insert blank here, retirees, business owners, divorcees, whatever it is. So, I guess, can you give us more profile examples? Like, what does that look like? How specific does it have to be?

Kristin: Well, yeah, let's look and say...like, I think it'd be helpful to walk through an example because I think we're getting, you know, kind of caught up on age and experience level or whatnot. But let's say, for an example, that we're like, okay, we're going to focus on, let's pick a business owner who's approaching exit, right? So, that could be difficult for this younger group. But let's say we work with business owners who are approaching exits, whether, you know, small to medium size, maybe professionals who are exiting local service businesses. So, then if I said to you, "Okay, advisor, we need you to go out in the world and find people who fit this demographic." And you're like, "Okay, where do I start?"

Well, first thing I ask people to do, and again, this isn't necessary. It's just kind of saying, all right, we're going to start with people you are most likely to know. And again, this is the one-on-one business development work. It's not marketing, like, "Oh, I'll put an article out. I'll do that." All of those things are meant to help support you. This is me going, "All right, I need to be having a conversation with ten people over the next month. How do I find those people?" So, first thing I ask people to do is go, who do you already know, just in your world, who fits your client profile, who are not a current client of the firm? Like, is it your dad's best friend? Is it someone who lives next door? Is it your doctor? Is it someone in your community? Even if you've never met them, but you're like, "I know who would be a great client. You know who I'd love to? I'd love to work with Jim who owns that hardware store in the corner. He seems like he's getting older." You know, just write them down. Like, these are people I think would be great clients.

Michael: My, like, stress level is already going up.

Kristin: I know it's already going up. Mine too, because I don't...

Michael: You're like, I'm not going to have to approach Jim. It's...

Kristin: No, no, we're just working.

Michael: Okay.

Kristin: And I put together this in a worksheet. So, you have a link to the worksheet that you can put in the show notes. Yeah, so there's a worksheet. We're really just trying to get you to think outside of your norm, right? Because we normally sit down and go, "I don't know. Who should I reach out to?" And I'll tell you, Michael, I still do this for myself and it causes me stress. But I do it anyway because it opens your mind. It's not, like, I have to now call the mayor of San Francisco and be like, "Hey, do you want to be a client?" You know, I just want to be like, "Oh, that would be a good client." Yeah, it's just to get your brain thinking. Like, who fits the profile?

And then, all right, we're on step two, well, who do you already know? So, remember, when we are looking for new business, you can get it in three ways, right? You can attract new people. You can move people who are prospects through the funnel faster. Or you can get increased wallet share from existing clients, or have clients refer you someone new, right? So, that's kind of the three buckets. And then you could also raise your prices and get more revenue. But that's a whole other discussion.

So, we're looking at existing relationships and we're looking at people we've never met, right? So, we're looking at existing clients. So, who in your mix of people you've worked with or serviced fit the target you're trying to find? Okay, and so, on the sheet, I'm going to list out a few. Well, who haven't you met with recently or who has experienced a life change or is well connected? So, here's a great example. So, you put down the client name. Hold on. I'll come back to it. And then put a little note, why would I want to reach out now? You know, did they have a life event? Is there something I want to invite them to? Is there something, an update that I could check in with them about? And then, you know, what would be that first step that I would take?

So, one of my coaching clients, he's a servicing advisor and he's working to get to learn business development. And he said, you know, "I have this one business owner client. He sold his business and he's worked with us for a long time and I work on his account. And he's so well connected. He knows everybody in the town. He really does. He's been on this board and he taught here and he knows all these people." And so, you know, I challenged him to have a conversation, "Just have a conversation." And he came back and he goes, "I just told him. Hey, I'm learning how to expand my skills and grow my business. I'd love to learn from you. What would you recommend I do in this situation to meet more people?" And it was, like, a perfect way to have this guy who was so excited then to share and be like, "Okay, I can connect you to this person and I would love to introduce you here. And here's what I did when I was in your shoes." And it was a very empowering conversation to him. So, it's really...

Michael: So, I'm asking my existing clients this.

Kristin: This is existing clients. Yes, people that you already know. And as you're saying, all right, I'm going to take on some business development effort. And especially if you're younger and you're saying...or newer. I like to say newer because I was a career changer, so I didn't get in this profession till I was in my mid-30s. And, you know, I wasn't right out of school or anything. So, I like to say, you know, anyone who's entering in that, you know, you're looking at existing clients and saying, are there places where I could reconnect or add some value to that that would position me to be able to talk with them about business development? That's all. We're just trying to identify who might be there.

Then there's my favorite piece, which is existing contacts who are not yet clients. So, who's come in and talked to you before? Who's kind of stuck in the funnel? Who are people that you've, another great example, former colleagues that you've worked with at other companies? But, I guess, if you're younger, you haven't, but maybe people you went to college with. People who you know, who've asked you money questions. Like you said, because people know that you're in the biz, like, you had that scenario of friend. You've been in the business a long time. He's asking you about it. But, you know, people have asked you money questions. What is it that you could reconnect with them on? What is it that you could reach out and ask them?

I have two women I'm working with who are focused on sabbatical financial planning and helping people with sabbaticals. So, we're trying to get the word out and let people know. And they did an outreach email to former colleagues that they worked with in a previous corporate job. So, they had been career changers as well. And so, they reached out and said, "Hey, I want to let you know what I'm up to and what I'm doing and who we're working best with. And this is what we're doing. This is our new website. This is who a good client is. Just wanted to keep you up to date on what I'm doing." You know, that kind of thing, which works very well because people want to help you.

Michael: Well, can I...

Kristin: Am I making you nervous, Michael?

Michael: No, no, no. I mean, I get it now. Like, just we're trying to find just concrete places to start creating activity of...

Kristin: Correct.

Michael: ...who do I know that I can touch base with? Who have I interacted with that I can go back to? But I think now then, I'm just trying to figure out, what am I saying to them?

Kristin: Right. Well, that's where we have to...you know, one of the columns in here is like, well, what's the topic I'm going to connect with them on? What is it that I want to catch up with them about? So, it depends on the context of how you know them.

Michael: Well, I mean, I get it, to open the door and have a conversation. I think I'm struggling with like, "Yeah, we haven't hung out in a while, but it's great to connect with you. Did you go to the ten-year?" "No, I did. It was cool. We saw a whole bunch of people." "By the way, do you want to give me your life savings?"

Kristin: No, not at all. No, no, no.

Michael: Obviously not. But like, how do I...?

Kristin: Well, then...

Turning The Conversation With Contacts To Financial Planning [50:05]

Michael: You know, I get, like, go make a connection when I don't have a business development background. But how do I get this back to business development and not just have it be a social call?

Kristin: Yeah, that's where you say, so what are you doing? What do you do for work? What does that look like? And then when they ask you, that's when you say, "Hey, you know what, what I'm..." I mean, a great way to do it. And this is one of the rainmakers I worked with kind of gave me this idea. And I think it's really strong. You say something like, "I really love where I'm working. I work at this financial advisory firm. And you may think it's just about managing money, but it's not about that. It's about, you know how you save, you're saving to buy a house, and you're trying to figure out, 'Should I put money in the mortgage or should I save for retirement or what about the college funds?' We work with people to navigate all those tradeoffs. And it's really fascinating and fulfilling work because I'm able to make an impact on people who are 30, 35 years old, who are really struggling with some of these key decisions. And it's great to see them get on the right path."

So, you're talking in a way that's saying, this is what we do. And then they may say, "Wow, I could really use that." But if not, they're at least understanding what you do in a way that speaks in terms that they could actually rearticulate to someone else. Do you know what I mean? Like, again, this is where you have the conversation, you talk, you see if it's going anywhere, you're practicing your messaging. And then, again, this is where marketing kind of follows up. It's about the follow up then. Then you say, "Hey, Kate, great to connect with you again. I'm so happy we've reconnected. Can't wait to see you at the 15-year."

And depending on what came out of that conversation, you either send some sort of value add piece of like, "Hey, I think that, you know, you asked me those questions about the 529. Here's an article my firm put together. I think it'll help you, so I just wanted to send it along." You know, that's it. You're not asking for the sale or anything. You know, "I can even answer any questions for you. Feel free to ask, and can't wait to see you again," or whatever it is. So, it all depends on the nature of the conversation. You just think, what is the smallest next step I could take to advance that movement if I think that they are a viable person in my audience."

Michael: And again, I see you kind of coming back to, I guess, the profile, right? In that case, like, "I'm working with young adults paying down mortgage and saving for college and retirement funds and they have all these choices and we help them navigate that. And I really enjoyed the work that I do." So, I'm supposed to be customizing that to whoever my profile is.

Kristin: Yes. Or I would say we sort of veered off of the business owner exit there, but it could be like, you know, "We do some really great, we do some really cool work with business owners when they're just really trying to optimize their business for exit. And it's great because I see a lot of people who are my parents' age now who have owned businesses who are able to exit and exit successfully and set up themselves for their legacy." And so, you can speak to the audience you're trying to reach. But the reason that you have this person on the list is because somehow they're connected to the target audience.

We're looking for people who fit in the target audience or potentially have a connection to the target audience. Like, maybe your friend's dad owns a business and you know that, you know, in that case. So, I mean, if we're sticking with the target audience if you're having a...you know, the exercise is to say, "Okay, our firm specializes in this, therefore that's who I'm going to look for." If you're just looking for local people with $1 million to $5 million dollars in assets that you can manage, then you have a little more room to tailor based on your life segment. It can be a harder story because you have less targeted backup to go with it, but it's still, you know, a viable approach.

Michael: So, I don't necessarily have to be talking to someone who fits my profile.

Kristin: No, not at all, not at all.

Michael: I just need to believe that they know people or have a connection to someone who fits my profile.

Kristin: Exactly.

Michael: Because I'm, basically, fishing for a referral at this point. Like, I'm hoping they'll say, "Oh, my gosh, my father needs to talk to you. My uncle needs to talk to you," whatever it is.

Kristin: Yes, exactly. And again, these are different categories. Certain categories are going to apply a lot better than others based on who your audience is. If your firm just says, "We work with people, a million, $5 million, and we don't really care what they do." And your friends are the go-getters and they had liquidity events at early ages and have a couple of million dollars and they're 30, and you're 30 and that's who your social network is, great. But I mean, we're really trying to focus on, "All right, our firm specializes in business owners who are approaching an exit. Therefore, we will look and think, okay, who else do I know who's an existing contact, someone I already know who fits that bill and I can connect with them." And whether or not they're an end client or an influencer, you have that piece.

Working With COIs To Generate Good-Fit Leads [55:18]

Kristin: And I think, you know, the next one is pretty clear. If you're leveraging people who already know you, it's either existing clients or people in your neighborhood, if you will. Then we get into strategic professional partners. And this is the more traditional COIs [Centers Of Influence], right? If I say, "Michael, I need you to go out and have meetings with ten people, and ideally, they result in some sort of movement of growth activity for the firm." We're going to have you look at people that you already know, and then we're going to look at, "Okay, well, who can refer business to you?" Kind of the tried and true…CPAs and estate attorneys, insurance agents, realtors, coaches, consultants, all of these different things. So, a lot of people go here first because they perceive it as easy, like, "Oh, I'll just reach out to some estate planning attorneys or I'll contact a CPA." But, you know...

Michael: And what am I saying to them when I'm reaching out to them? Like, I what am I asking for? How am I opening the door with them?

Kristin: So, the first thing is, you know, you'll do a search and you'll find someone online. And then you want to go evaluate and look online and say, "Okay, does this person have a target audience that matches my target audience? I also like to see how active are they in posting or sharing content? What is their LinkedIn profile look like? Do they seem to be someone who is marketing savvy or engaged? Because I find that they're most likely to be people who would understand and refer business." Then as you're reaching out to them, you have to establish a connection and say, "Dear, So-and-so," you know, if you're sending an email, it might be, "I see that you serve, you know, business owners who are approaching exit, and that you are able to help them with blank, blank, and blank. We work with clients who have these problems and it looks like you solve the same ones we do."

This is not a very good example, but, "I'd love to connect with you for a 15-minute call and just learn a little bit more about your business and how I may be able to help. We're always looking for people who can help our clients with tax advice or estate planning." or something like that. That's fairly generic. I like to go as tight as possible on that and really look to say, "We're really looking for a partner that we can collaborate with who can help serve our business owners, not only when they exit, but leading up to when they want to sell their company." And then you can set up, am I going to have a coffee or an email or a Zoom call, or what does that look like?

Michael: And, I mean, again, I can sort of see, see the thread here, so all coming back to common client profile, because I'm just continuing to try to build awareness of, this is who I serve. This is who I serve.

Kristin: Yes. Yeah. Step one, this is who I serve.

Michael: I'm going to tell my clients, I'm going to tell my contacts, I'm going to tell every lawyer in CPA who will meet with me, like, I serve business owners working on exit. I serve business owners working on exit. I serve business owners working on exit.

Kristin: Yeah, exactly. Exactly. And then, ultimately ,building that, assessing who are good people for you. You're not going to follow up with everyone because they may not be a good fit as you're talking to them. But as you're finding people who are a good connection or fit, you take them through that value follow up. Like, what else can I do to get in front of them? How else can I help them? I mean, strategic partners, there's a whole kind of subset of how are you...? You know, you want to look for, like, kind of your tier one partners that you could really collaborate with and you're and you're, like, designing client events together, you're doing workshops together, or you're on each other's podcasts, or you're really deepening that relationship and kind of having a strategic collaborative exchange. Versus maybe a kind of, like, a tier three strategic partner that you meet, like a real estate agent, and you're like, "Okay, I had a 15-minute call, you know what I do, but it's I'm not that confident that you will really send anyone my way. But you reached out to me, therefore I said, okay, let me have this conversation and practice my messaging and get it out there." So, there is some of that as well.

Michael: I guess that was part of my question to the, I guess, the end of this, like, theme conversation with now the strategic partner, like, am I supposed to be saying at some point, "So, if you know anybody who fits this description, I love to talk to them?" Like, am I asking them for referrals and introductions? Am I just trying to make as many people as I can aware of who I serve and trust that if I have enough touchpoints of that, like, someone's going to introduce me to someone soon enough? Like, what am I shooting for?

Kristin: Yeah, the degree to which you can get to, especially with the strategic professional partner, be like, who is a good client for you? How do I know who's best to refer to you? That is, ask them first. And then, ideally, you can share with them more specifically who it is, who's a good fit. I personally like to have my clients develop, again, kind of a one pager that says, "Introduction to our firm. Here's who we are. Here are the problems that we solve for your clients. If you have anyone with these problems, X, Y, and Z, here's what we do." And it might have some of that social proof on there, a testimonial. It might have an example of a client's story. Something that you can actually hand to them besides a business card that essentially says, "When you have this specific situation, this is who we work with." And you have an actual collateral piece that you hand to them. And that's again, where it gets down to marrying the marketing elements with helping advisors be confident in their interactions in the world.

Michael: So, are there more pathways on the list? I mean, you've talked about, like, going to existing clients, going to other people I know, going to the strategic partners.

Kristin: Yeah. Another one is local organizations and groups. Now, that could be, like, your Vistage, your Entrepreneurs Organization, your...

Michael: I'm sure business owners.

Kristin: Yeah. Your local networking circles, maybe nonprofit boards. That's a popular one, right? School foundations. Importantly here, you want to look for the areas, one, that you have an interest in. Because, again, this is you choosing where you're going to spend your time, money, energy, etc. You're not going to do all of these things necessarily, but you're trying to see which ones might test them out and see which path seems to bear the most fruit, right? So, what does that organization or group look like?

I've had a lot of people have success in an EO type of group, an entrepreneurs organization where they can participate, small business association. But importantly, you have to see who attends and who is the ideal client for that organization, and are they a fit or not. And it could be, like, the referral groups in your area. But are you going to just go and visit? Are you going to join? Are you going to just test it out? What is your action you're going to take? Okay, "I'm going to go to two meetings and see if I think that there's any opportunity here to get a referral or to attract a client." And you try that out and see how that goes. So, it's, again, looking to see, where is it that I can find business owners who are approaching an exit? Well, if I'm in an entrepreneurs group or a Vistage group, which is focused on CEOs, you know, there's requirements to being in those, but it could be somewhere that makes sense.

Michael: So, where...? Oh, go ahead, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Kristin: I was going to say the next thing and along those lines is just looking at...and again, this is to open your eyes to all the different things you might do. Because you might already be on a nonprofit board somewhere. You might already be part of, like, a school foundation and helping us, a PTA or something. And that's where you just want to make sure everyone there knows what you do. And I like to tap into things you're already doing, even if...you know, and that gets to this next one, which is pursuing hobbies, interests, and lifestyle. This one I like for introverts because you can connect with people through something you already like doing. Like, you don't go join the running club because you're like, "Oh, no, I know our clients like to run." But if you can't run...

Michael: Business owners run.

Kristin: Yeah. But I'm like, I don't know. I can't run to the corner. I'm not very good at that. But if you're like, "Hey, I'm really into high triathlon training. I have a client here who was big into triathlons and leads a wealth management firm here. And he is very engaged in his Vistage group and he's very engaged in his triathlon training and extreme, you know, ultra performance sports, whatever they're called, ultra marathons, etc. And that's where he's just making sure that as he's training and doing it, people know what he does for a living. So, they know if they have a problem...like, what problems does he solve? They know what it is and they can connect to him when needed.

So, it's like, "Oh, I'm showing up here. Have I told people in the group." This is where people go, "Oh, yeah, I've been part of that. I go to the gym every day. No one knows what anyone does for a living." And then I start asking people, "Oh, yeah, what do you do?" And they're like, "Oh, I just got laid off. I'm in tech." And I'm like, "Well, what kind of tech job would you like?" I almost want to be like, "Why aren't you telling me what you're doing so I can help you?" But I know people like to be kind of reserved about that. But that's something where you can say, "Oh, I help people navigate the trade-offs of where to put their money, short term, long term, etc. I'm a financial planner and we kind of take a holistic view of things and have a look at..."

So, people know what you do, right? You don't want to spend half your free time somewhere and have people that you make very good connections with and they don't even know what you do. I'm working with another advisor right now who he's very established. He said he's been serving clients for a long time. And one of the things he wants to do is start developing more business on his own within the company. It's kind of one of the things they've set up, is his professional development goals. And he said, "All of my friends are in my target audience and none of them know what I do because I don't want to tell them. Because I feel weird saying it because I think they'll think that I'm trying to get them to be a client."

Michael: Which is technically true.

Kristin: Which is true, yes.

Michael: Accurate.

Kristin: That is accurate. And that's why you can even say, "Look, here's what I do." That's where you want to talk about how much you like your work and what you do. And, "Oh, we had this guy at work and he did this and we were able to help them. We had this doctor who sold his firm and he did this and that." And I said, even if they are worried about it, they are talking to you about it. Because he said he's even had clients, like, friends ask him about what he does and he's shied away from it. And so, we've been role playing kind of like, how do you handle that? What do you do? And I was like, "You can even say, 'Look, I appreciate it might be a little too close for me and you to work together. But we have other fantastic advisors in our firm. You can get all the benefits and work with one of them. I'm happy to introduce you.'" You're still developing business for the company, right? You're still helping the firm grow. It's just maybe not directly with you. So, I think that's an important thing to think about.

Overcoming Barriers To Practicing Business Development Skills [1:07:22]

Michael: I just was going to say, so where else do you see the blocking points crop up? Because I certainly I'm feeling pretty clear about the overall strategy now. I just...

Kristin: You just keep looking for where you want to go.

Michael: Yeah. Like just we're getting super clear on who we want to go after and work with, and then just find every possible way that we can network our way to them and get introduced to them. Make anybody in their ecosystem know that we do this for people like them so that we can get an introduction. The clearer I am about the profile, the easier it is to do this and create follow-up materials that give me credibility. So, where do you find advisors get stuck in practice?

Kristin: First, setting aside time to do this, right? Because a lot of times they are in a role where they're servicing, they're doing their other job roles, and they're being asked now to do business development, and/or they want to because they want to progress. So, first and foremost, it's prioritizing time in their schedule to make this possible, right? And so, I always say start very small, like, start with 15 minutes a day or one hour a week. Like, set aside a time and set very clear activities like, reach out to five people this week.

Michael: I was just going to say, like, what am I doing in that time?

Kristin: Yeah, list those people very specifically. Let's say, you put together this possibility of people you could reach out to, sit down, and very intentionally say, "Okay, I'm going to do an initial connect with five attorneys this week on LinkedIn. And if they connect with me, I will follow up with my email that I wrote about meeting up with them." So, you're very specific about what you're going to do, and how would you measure that?

And that's actually, I find it's best if you can do it by, like, naming people, like, "Reach out to this attorney. Reach out to current client, Jim. Reach out to the..." And then just measure your actions. So, you're like, "Okay, all I'm doing is putting myself out there." Maybe it's show up. One I like to do is say, "I just want you to tell three people at the kids' birthday party that you're going to this weekend where the parents are just going to be standing around looking at each other, I want you to try three different ways of mentioning what you do for a living." That might be a lot for a birthday party. I want you to approach someone who doesn't know what you do and bring the conversation in. Or I want you to be in that client meeting. I want you to note any time in the conversation that you could open the door to ask for a referral, or you could open the door to expand their service offering. So, really just starting to track small actions over time that then start to move further.

Michael: So, how often do you find advisors get stuck in some version of, "But, Kristin, it feels really salesy, it feels awkward."

Kristin: Oh, all the time. All the time. And as I just had with a woman from another firm the other day, she said, "I know I've been putting it off." I said, "You know what? I just want you to let her know that if anyone else in her family or friends want this kind of help as well, you're happy to talk to them. That's all I want you to say." And she was like, "Oh, okay." And then she was having meetings and she's like, "I finally just said it. And it was very... I was just having a really nice, genuine conversation with her. And I said, 'Hey, if you, you know, if any of your friends or family need help or want to run anything by me, I'd be happy to chat with them and help them in any way.'"

And she's like, "It seemed harder than it was. And as soon as I did it, it was like, 'Oh, that wasn't that hard,'" because she practiced. And as I tell them in our...we rehearse sometimes, you know, we'll practice. I'll say, "Okay, try it out. Let's go through it again." But the biggest thing is that I suggest be yourself and offer to help, and don't put any strings attached to it or, you know, push too hard, but just offer to help. And that usually gets people there.

But I think, you know, one of the biggest things, Michael, going kind of all the way back to we're not trained how to do business development, is the fact that the newer people coming into the profession or this generation, however you want to say it, we're mired in the idea that it is cold outreach. Yes, you do have to reach out one on one, but there's lots of different ways you can do it. And you have to find the style or the service that works for your personality. Like, I'm not going to walk into a room and work the room. I don't like it. I don't think it's enjoyable at all. I will do it on occasion just because I'm at a conference, but I would rather reach out in advance of a conference, look at who's coming, and do one-on-one outreach and say, "Hey, I'd love to connect with you at the conference. Can we meet for coffee?" You know, so you can look and say, how do I communicate best?

You put me in a room with a bunch of people I don't know, I'm like, "Okay, I'll do it, but I don't love it." But you give me a chance to invite someone directly to a coffee or invite them to a call or a 15-minute let's get to know each other, or I'd love to catch up, sure. I'll even feel uncomfortable sending that out and I'll do it anyway. And then once I'm on the phone with someone, I'm perfectly happy one-to-one. So, I do think it's really important that you have to find the way that works for you. And maybe your way is creating content for your firm and sending it out and publishing it and putting calls to action in and supporting and helping in that way. There's a lot of ways to contribute to the business development efforts that aren't, "Oh, my God, who do I have to call?"

How Kristin Supports Advisors [1:13:29]

Michael: So, now, let me take one broader step back. What do you do, Kristin? What is your actual business at this point?

Kristin: Good question. So, two things. I do outsourced fractional chief marketing officer work. So, I'll work with firms with roughly, like, $3 million to $10 million in revenue, plus or minus a little, to come in and serve as a strategic marketing person on their team. They usually don't have someone on the team in that role. They might have someone who's implementing or executing, but they don't have a strategic person setting a plan and finding resources and setting priorities and going forth. So, that comes out of the marketing work I've been doing for the last 15 years in the industry. And that's something that I really enjoy doing. And I become part of the team in a fractional way and help set up things like this collateral, these assets, the content, the stories, all of the things that advisors could then draw on to help them as they develop their business. You know, what's the messaging like? How do we communicate? What do we say? Where are we putting that out there?

And then I do one-on-one coaching with advisors. And that used to be about marketing and like, "Okay, how do you pick your target audience? And then how do you make sure your messaging on your website matches? And what kind of content should we deliver?" But that has evolved as we've hit this conundrum, as you've called out, of firm owners calling me and saying, "Hey, I need my advisors to help with business development. And can you help me?" And so, it kept coming up over and over again. And, you know, ultimately, when I'm helping people with their marketing and whatnot, it all flows into prospect experience and how are you communicating with your clients? And then how are we asking for a frozen…it just was a natural outtake of that. And I just really started getting into it as someone who used to have great fear over "selling".

I said, you know what? It's a whole new game. And I identified the exact same thing that you were talking about, which is, hey, here's a bunch of people who've just never been shown how to do it. And the only reason I figured it out was because I jumped into the fire. But, you know, not everyone's going to do that. And so, how can we help them? And I have a lot of compassion for the introvert who wants to advance and be an ownership, or the person who's nervous in the social setting. I'm like, "No, you have a lot to offer. And it's just really about finding what your strength is and giving you the messaging and the channels to get to having these conversations. Because you will be fine. It just may be different than the way your fellow advisor did it or your founder did it."

How Hesitant Advisors Can Get Over The Hump And Thrive In Business Development [1:16:13]

Michael: So, as you've now gone down this path, like, what surprised you the most trying to build this consulting offering around business development, having, like, come in as someone who didn't, like, originally know business development?

Kristin: Yes, I was going to say, yeah, see our previous episode conversation. That's what I talked about. I think that I actually am surprised how many firms are not focused on teaching and training this next generation, given that, you know... And you saw it, I think, in your research you did on well-being. Just, like, the people who are not satisfied in their work and who don't feel that they have a path and don't feel like they're growing or have ownership in the process, they're two to three times more likely to leave the firm. And that's disruptive. It's expensive. And I'm really I'm just really surprised that firms continue to say, "Okay, well, I figured it out, they can figure it out," you know, and a little bit of, like, ‘back in my day' kind of thing, which I get it. You know, I understand that, but I'm really surprised.

And I'm surprised that more people wouldn't look at the big picture and say, "All right, well, things are different. Like you said, everything's different. And frankly, it's just expensive to lose people. And we want to build a cohesive team over time." So, that surprises me. And, you know, it's something that can be handled, especially... I also get surprised that, you know, marketing tends to be an afterthought and, like, trying to get a cohesive message. It's more like, "Well, we don't have time for that. We're servicing clients." I'm kind of like, well, if we can get that on the same page, we'll have a lot of efficiencies and have direction and know exactly where to prioritize our resources, which can be very efficient.

Michael: So, I mean, as you noted, like, turnover is so painful and costly, like, why do you think firms have such difficulty than training next generation advisor?

Kristin: I think they just don't know how. And I think...you know, what I'm hearing, and that's what I hear from the fact that they're, like, even the ones who want to do it, but they just don't know. They're like, "We don't know what to do." And...

Michael: I just got out there and saw more people and the business grew more.

Kristin: Yes. Yeah. And...

Michael: I mean that in a positive way, like, just they...

Kristin: And you know what? And I didn't necessarily intend to go, but I just started. I have a big, soft spot for people, of course, you know, who have anxiety around these things, who have that desire to achieve and advance and grow, but are kind of putting themselves in a bucket that says, "Well, I can't sell," because that's exactly what I said to myself. And yet I learned how to do it. And you just have to do it a different way. You lean way more into marketing, which is why I talk about building the assets and the one sheet and the content and the resources and the follow up and the emails and the phone calls that you know exactly. You lean into the marketing and the systematic elements of it. And then you put yourself in conversations where you feel comfortable.

And then as you get that foundation and get comfortable, you learn how to handle the more uncomfortable situations and go, "You know what? I can turn on for that cocktail hour for one hour. I can do it." And then you do it. And then you go, "That's not my preferred, but I will do it occasionally. And then I'll come back to doing my one-on-one outreach because I like that better." You know, it could be something like that. Or, "I'll host a podcast and talk to people and share my message and let people learn more about me that way, and then ask for calls to action at various points along the way."

Michael: So, I like that framing of just, you know, what do I do if I don't like going outbound cold as much? Like, I lean into marketing a little more and I make the phone ring so I can...

Kristin: Then it's warmer, right?

Michael: Yeah.

Kristin: You still ultimately have to sell. But if you think of it not as selling, again, just get rid of that word, right? It's all about getting someone to give you money in exchange for you solving their problem with a service. So, it's like, okay, let's just hope the value equation matches out so that you're both on the same page and then you're good.

How Kristin Overcame Her Own Business Development Hurdles [1:20:03]

Michael: So, what was the low point in business development world for you?

Kristin: Yeah, I think this one, I mean, I've kind of already said it, but fighting my own imposter syndrome about it because I'm not that guy who built up the practice and won the award and shows up at the, you know, Hawaii, like, top of the roundtable, whatever you call it. You know, I'm not that, right? I mess up a lot even today. And I actually love being on a call with prospects because I love figuring out if we're a fit or not, and can I help them? And I get very excited about it. But, you know, I didn't always like doing that.

So, I think it kind of goes back to, as well, of like, you know, whenever that that comes up... It still comes up to me. It comes up to me all the time. I'm like, you think by now it wouldn't. But then I just have to go, "Okay, what do you do? Well, how do you do that? How do you do...?" And ultimately, a realization of we can still do business development. I've been able to have people pay me money over time, consistently growing by saying something. So, it's more about just practicing the skill and remembering that everyone has those imposter syndrome questions that pop up in various ways, and you just keep moving anyway.

Michael: I was going to say, was there some turning point or transition where, like, you could break through the imposter syndrome challenge?

Kristin: Well, it was actually, I was doing just fine when I'm doing marketing, coaching and consulting, and outsourced fractional CMO [Chief Marketing Officer]. I can talk that all day long. But as I saw this need for business development and just trying to figure a process, and the first few firms or people who reached out to me about it that I pitch, and they decided they were just going to work on it themselves or go a different direction, I definitely was like, "Hmm, I don't know if I can do this." But then it's like, all right, let me let me go back, look at the messaging. What did I say? How would I change it? What did I hear from them that might change how I position things? What do they need?

And so, it was kind of just like...well, I always like to challenge myself with something new anyway, and it was kind of just those bumps of like, "All right, I'm going to I'm going to put myself out there and do something different and an evolution and I'm going to have to learn." So, I think you usually fall down a few times when you're pitching something new and you go, "Well, I'll try it again." And then when you get it to hook and then it repeats itself and repeats itself, you go, "Oh." And then you get results because someone has a conversation that results in a million dollars coming in, you're like, "Wow, that feels really good because they didn't think they could do it and they did it and it's so exciting." That's where you're like, "Oh, I love this." So, it's fun.

Kristin's Advice For Her Younger Self And For Newer Advisors [1:22:54]

Michael: So, are there any the pearls of wisdom you know now from experience that you wish you could go back and tell you when your first career changing in long ago?

Kristin: In a long ago time?

Michael: Yeah. Like, what are the pearls of wisdom with the experience we have today?

Kristin: I think it is really about just that idea that as long as you're acting in service of other people with what you have to offer, you're going to find a way to be able to ask them if you may help them for a fee. You know, you're going to figure that out. You just have to have confidence that you can help them, and that as you practice and get out in the world and articulate what you do, and as you get experience behind you and have a few scenarios where you're repeating and you're like, "Okay, I know I know how to do this," you start to get more comfortable. And you will get there. You just kind of have to work through that discomfort for a little while and find your way, and then you'll feel really energized and excited about it because you genuinely know that you're there to help people and that they will find value in it. So, I think it's really kind of just a pep talk of you be you, be yourself and know how to package that up in a way that people can understand how you're going to help them.

 Michael: So, I guess, in that vein and sort of this theme that we had at the very beginning, there's parts of what it's like in the modern era that really is different than doing business development 20, 30 years ago. So, what other advice would you give to newer advisors coming into the profession today and wanting to, on a roadmap, or figure out like, how am I going to do this business development thing?

Kristin: I highly recommend talking to people. Like, reaching out to other people in the industry who are in roles that you want to be in. So, look for mentors, look for people who can guide you and help you and tell you how they got there, how they did it. I think if you can find... I mean, if your firm's smaller and maybe you don't want to ask the rainmaker person, you know, find someone else in the industry from a conference you go to, from a study group, from a, you know, Facebook group or whatever it might be. And start to connect with people who have 10 years of experience more than you or 15 years' experience, even 20 who are saying, "Hey, I could use some help here."

And look for people whose content you might appreciate or you like the way they share on LinkedIn. I really find it very helpful to look for others who are doing things in a way that you really like, and just talk to them. I think we don't get enough of that. And I think that's...especially if you go to conferences and you hear various speakers, just follow up with them. I know. I speak at conferences all the time, you do too, Michael. I'm like, if someone wants...they come up to me and talk to me after and they want to have a conversation, I'm happy to have it. You know, and I see that with many people in the industry. They're very willing to help and guide and give insight. And I think it's worth investing and reaching out in that way.

What Success Means To Kristin [1:26:11]

Michael: So, as we come to the end here, this is a podcast about success. And one of the theme has always been, even that word success means very different things to different people. And so, you've been down this path of, like, multiple, successful businesses. You built your own advisory firm and sold it before all of this, which we didn't even get to talk about here. So, folks who want the whole backstory, kitces.com/211 for episode 211. When Kristin joined us originally, it's like you had this successful part with the advisory firm. Now, you're doing the marketing and business development coaching. So, the businesses seem to be in a wonderful place. How do you define success for yourself personally?

Kristin: Well, yeah, you know, I love this question, Michael, because that's my training in life coaching. See episode 211 on that. I recently did the values exercise again, you know, the one where you pick your top ten and then five and then three and then one. And I was really struggling as I looked at it, but it all rolled up to one word, which was wellness. And that's why I read your wellness study cover to cover because I was, like, fascinated by it. Because it was about what do I like? Oh, I like flexibility. I like freedom. I want to have time to be with my family. It's important to me to have connections. And, you know, I'm very physically active and I like to have meaningful discussions.

And I ultimately said, all of these things feed into one thing, which is a sense of wellness, of feeling good, of feeling content, of feeling like I'm on the right track. So, that to me is, if I'm feeling that sense of wellness, whether it's mental, physical, professional fulfillment, anything in that realm, I feel successful. And you're not quite here yet, but when you're in your mid-50s and your kids are going off to college and you're feeling like, "Wow, look what I've experienced in life and look what's coming ahead." And you kind of have a sense of standing in, you know, your accumulation of years of doing things. It's a really cool place to be because it's exciting. And there's just a lot that you can look forward to and feel satisfied about. And so, yeah, I'd say wellness means success to me.

Michael: I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much, Kristin, for joining us on the "Financial Advisor Success" podcast.

Kristin: Always a pleasure, Michael. I love it. It's great to talk with you.

Michael: Likewise. Thank you.