Executive Summary
The high impact of financial advice on people's lives is often an appealing part of the profession for many advisors who enter the field to help others. Yet, one of the realities of operating a business is that it must be done sustainably. According to Kitces Research and other benchmarking studies, the average annual cost to sustainably serve a client is around $3,000. Most Americans lack the assets or discretionary income to meet those thresholds. This leaves advisors who want to help others in a painful dilemma. On one hand, they may need to say “no” to those who genuinely need help but don't meet the firm's minimums, which can feel deeply unsatisfying – especially in a profession rooted in service. On the other hand, saying yes too often without structure can lead to burnout, unsustainable workloads, and a business model that struggles to thrive.
In this 176th episode of Kitces & Carl, Michael Kitces and client communication expert Carl Richards discuss how advisors can say yes in a way that is sustainable for both their practice and their wellbeing. One powerful framework is the 'barbell model', coined by Morgen Rochard. Rather than building a practice around average clients, this model allocates capacity at both ends of the spectrum: serving a small number of high-revenue, ideal clients while intentionally reserving a limited number of seats for lower-paying (or pro bono) clients. This helps advisors maintain business profitability while still engaging in the kind of high-impact, purpose-driven work that drew many to the profession in the first place. Crucially, the model works only when it is capacity-constrained – advisors must be disciplined about the number of 'low-revenue' clients served to keep the firm in balance.
Another potential approach is structured group education and financial coaching programs, particularly around focused topics or client niches. For instance, advisors can run regular workshops, courses, or group sessions, providing foundational guidance in a time-efficient and replicable way. These models offer high-leverage ways to say yes without ongoing client commitments and allow advisors to amplify their reach – potentially affecting hundreds of people per year, far beyond what's possible in a traditional one-to-one client structure. Moreover, these group offerings can be handed off to junior staff over time, making them more sustainable and potentially contributing to the training and development of newer advisors through valuable client-facing experience.
A third tactic is time-limited hourly advice – such as offering one-hour consults at a nominal fee, which creates clear boundaries while maximizing impact. By capping the time commitment, advisors maintain control over their schedules and avoid scope creep. Some dedicate a set block of time weekly (e.g., two one-hour consults every Friday) to such sessions, creating a consistent, guilt-free way to give back without derailing their core business. Even though the service isn't financially lucrative, it offers a way to help those in need meaningfully and on the advisor's own terms. This approach can also be a valuable source of practice reps, especially for associate advisors still building confidence and communication skills.
Ultimately, the key point is that it's possible to say yes to more people in need without compromising the sustainability of an advisory business, but doing so requires intentional structure and boundaries. By adopting models such as the barbell strategy, group education, and time-bound hourly advice, advisors can align their desire to serve with the economic realities of running a practice. These models allow advisors to give back in an impactful way, making a lasting difference in the lives of others!
Authors:
***Editor's Note: Can't get enough of Kitces & Carl? Neither can we, which is why we've released it as a podcast as well! Check it out on all the usual podcast platforms, including Apple Podcasts (iTunes), Spotify, and YouTube Music.
Show Notes
- #FASuccess Ep 199: The Barbell Approach To Building A High-Income And Broad-Reach Lifestyle Practice, With Morgen Rochard
- Bob Swift Education Platform
- Serving Pro Bono Clients As A Busy Advisor: How Advisers Give Back Makes Volunteering Easy
- Graduating Clients The Right Way: A Thoughtful Approach To Sustainably Transition 'Small' Clients To On-Demand
- Trends In Financial Advice Fees: What Financial Advisors Are Actually Charging For Their Services
Kitces & Carl Transcript
Michael: Well, greetings, Carl.
Carl: Hello, Michael. How are you? Which number of blue shirt is that? Is that number seven? Is that number eight? What's the deal?
Michael: I don't number them because then I would...
Carl: I just keep track when you replace them. Do you just...
Michael: Then I would feel compelled to keep track of the numbers and sequence them when I hang them because then the neuroticism kicks in. It's not good. No, just...
Carl: Sorry I asked.
Michael: There's a sufficient number in the closet so that I can always pack however many I need.
Carl: No, this is actually a serious question because I'm doing this with my socks right now. How do you know when...? Do you replace them all at once? Is it a time-based rebalancing, or is it trigger point?
Michael: Oh, no. It's trigger point. My wife shakes her head like... I basically wear clothes until they're falling off of my body.
Carl: And then you replace that one.
Michael: Yes. So I wear clothes until they're at a borderline unprofessional level of tatters. So the breakdown of any particular shirt will happen on its own lifelong cycle, depending on what travesties I inflict on it when I'm traveling and snag it going through TSA or whatever...
Carl: Okay, okay. Fair enough. I... All right. Good enough. We don't need to spend any more time on that. I just wanted to... Because I'm actually doing this with my socks, and every year I'm just going to take the old socks and get rid of them and buy a new set, the same kind, the same ones.
Michael: Thrifty, frugal me kicks in. I'm like, nah, because that thing had life left in it. You can't... It's wasteful to just dump it and get new ones when that one had life.
Carl: Okay. I retract my statement.
Michael: ...I could just keep going myself and keep wearing that. So, yeah, there's probably a whole other thing to unpack in that mentality, but that's a conversation for another day.
Carl: Which we will have, by the way.
Michael: Okay. I've now set the table. We're going to have to come back to that. Okay.
Carl: Yeah. All right. What are we talking about today?
Viable Advisory Fees Vs Giving Accessible Advice [02:03]
Michael: So, for today's discussion... So, I guess I'll give a little bit of context, and I'll kind of ask you the question I really want to get into with you today. So, one of the things that I'm finding more and more as both we're doing a lot of practice management content, right? I'm out there speaking. I do a lot of work as faculty with Limitless Adviser, Steph Bogan's program. We're doing more and more research and data directly from the Kitces platform. And what I find just over and over and over again is that the number one thing that is dragging down productivity and profitability of advisory firms is too many clients that do not pay what it takes for us to deliver the service that we deliver.
So, Bill Bachrach used to label this the... I'm not going to do justice to his words because he always had a gift with them. It was like, "Too much work for too many clients for too little money," I think was how he framed it. So, some of us call this the "small client's problem," right? But that essence of, look, just the hard mathematical reality, it takes a lot of time to do the work that we do. There are costs to hiring staff that it takes to run an advisory firm. And if you don't generate a certain amount of revenue per client, at least, and especially for any kind of ongoing client relationship, it starts to get very challenging for the business.
And lots of folks out there have various numbers for it. But we found repeatedly in our research it's somewhere in the $2,000 to $3,000 range, probably closer to $3,000 than $2,000. Not coincidentally, we see the median subscription fee at AdvicePay is $250 a month, which adds up to three grand a year. The most common advisor minimum is $250,000, which is about $2,500 if you charge 1%. A little bit more because often our fee schedules are a little bit higher than 1% at the smaller end of the asset scale. And mathematically, a monstrous portion of the entire U.S. population cannot afford three grand a year or does not have $300,000 liquid. And so, right. That's just hard mathematical. It's not even half of the population that can do that.
And that's not even an AUM thing. Even if you're charging subscription fees, the math is still problematic. And so, we live with this business model where we still can't help a huge portion of the population. And most of us increasingly get into this business because we want to serve and help people. So being in a helper profession that has to disqualify a significant number of people who need help because they can't pay you enough feels really crappy. And I can share the research and the numbers as much as anyone that most of us do this to at least some extent. Many of us do it to the point that the business literally is not sustainable.
Carl: Right. Or we are... Yeah, the old phrase we sometimes throw around, "You're burned out, piped to death by ducks." I can't do it anymore. I got to change something.
Michael: Yeah. And even as much as I'm all for helping people, I get triggered when people are doing this at a level that they're burning themselves out, right? If you can't keep helping people because you burn yourself out with an unsustainable model, then you're not helping anyone in the future. So, all of that is lead-in. So, the industry has a lot of conversations out there. We put some stuff out from our platform of your metrics get better as you "fix" this problem. We can try to graduate small clients. We can set fee minimums or asset minimums. I like fee minimums.
Set the price of the client aside. There's all these different business levers about how to not have so many "small" clients that your business gets undermined and becomes unsustainable. I would love to talk today about the other version of this, which is, how can we do this in ways where we say yes? Maybe yes in a way that doesn't create long-term problems that burn us out with models that aren't sustainable. But how do we do this in ways that say yes? Maybe some guardrails around it instead of saying no because the no just sucks. And yes feels better.
Carl: And let me clarify. Are you saying proactively find people who need help, or are you mainly saying people who come to me who I'm going to have to say no to, I want to find a way to be helpful at least?
Michael: I think it's more in the vein of people who find us. Maybe we could do a future episode of...
Carl: A referral or whatever... Yeah, yeah.
Michael: If people want to have this conversation, send us emails, ping us on social, and when we get the outcries, we do an episode on it. So, if you want to hear about the how do I go out there in the community and do this? We can have that as a future. But I'm thinking more of the people find us on our website, they reach out, they get referred to us. Heaven forbid it's actually a friend or family of an existing client, where there's a whole other level of awkwardness to it. But even outside the, "Carl, you do great work with us. Can you work with my kids as well?" We get opportunities the more we grow, or we get known in our communities the more this tends to become a problem over time.
The great thing about building your brand in your community is you get more ideal clients. The bad news is you also get more non-ideal clients. So, we've all got that flow to some degree. How do we handle this in ways that are less no based than...? Or we do our best work with retirees who have at least half a million dollars in assets, or I have a $3,000 minimum. If that doesn't work for you, I'm happy to refer you to someone else. How do we say yes in a way that doesn't create problems later?
Giving Simple Advice [8:58]
Carl: Yeah, look, the first... I'll take the low-hanging fruit, and then we can work our way up because I'm curious to hear what you've seen. But the first thing I always found and still find that sometimes those potential clients, those people that need help, the situation is relatively simple. Now, look, I know there's outliers. We've got some student loan debt, and we've got something else over here, and it's actually quite complex, but often, it's relatively simple. And open a Roth IRA and save $25 a month at Vanguard. Let's just get started. It's good... So, the low-hanging fruit is, well, you must have met with them or at least had a conversation with them to find out that they weren't somebody that you could help as a client. And so, maybe you already know enough to offer them a relatively simple idea on how they can... I was going to say piece of advice. And we can decide whether or not it's advice or how we handle that. But giving them a relatively simple suggestion or two.
And I just want to finish this. One thing we underestimate is how valuable that is to them because most people don't have... "I have no idea." I was just having this conversation with somebody two days ago who was like, "Wait, could you tell me the difference between the...?" What does my 401(k) earn? We all joke that it sounds... But most people have no idea. And they shouldn't because they know about a bunch of other stuff. So, we forget how helpful it is to just clarify one little thing. And so, that's really low-hanging fruit, right? Of a one-page email that says, "Hey, do these three things." That's one idea. Where were you going?
Using The Barbell Approach To Serve A Variety Of Clients [11:06]
Michael: So, I guess just, I don't know, the challenge I would extend you extend us. Let's take it one step further in the complexity because I think a lot of us have had those moments of, "Okay. I've got a prospect. We get in the conversation." It's about five or seven minutes into the conversation, and you realize this is not a good fit. And then often, we'll at least try to like, "Okay. Well, I had a 30-minute fit meeting on the calendar. I'm going to honor this conversation and be as valuable as I can in the next 23 minutes that remain in this call before we part ways. So, tell me a little more about your situation. Okay. This isn't a great fit for us, but here are a few things that you can do. Maybe I can concretely articulate in the meeting. If not, maybe I'll send a follow-up email with, “Here's two places you could open your Roth. Go forth and do your thing and save your $25 a month."
I'm thinking a level beyond that because, frankly, I find a lot of us, we have ways to disengage those. It's the ones that are a little worse, right? They do have more stuff going on. There is more complexity, there are more things happening. And I'm trying to figure out what to do with this. Oh, no, they're a widow, the husband just died. They really have no idea what to do. They just inherited $102,000 into all the money that they've got from here on out because, unfortunately, he didn't have any life insurance. And I have no idea what I'm going to do, and I've got two young kids. I cannot solve this in an hour or three minutes of a couple of things. You got stuff, and this is heavy, and you clearly are really in some need and help.
Carl: Tell me what you've seen because it's super interesting.
Michael: So, the first that I've seen is a subset of advisors that take, and I'm going to... I feel so bad. I got this label from a particular advisor, and I'm blanking on who it was. So, I really want to give them credit, and I can't because I am just blanking on their name. They called this a barbell approach. Oh, it was Morgan Rochard. Morgan Rochard called this a barbell approach. So, if you think of a barbell with weights loaded on the bar, most advisory firms, the barbell has all the weights in the middle and then a few that kind of spread out in either direction, right?
Most of my clients are average-ish. And then I got some that are smaller, and I've got some that are bigger. And if you really want to be fair, because now I'm going nerdy distribution style, there are probably a few more weights on the small left side of the bar than the big right side of the bar. But we got a couple of really big ones out on the far right. And those few big clients are profitable enough that it offsets the fact that we've got a big chunk that are a little bit below average and probably not that profitable. But hey, the firm as a whole is holding up okay.
Morgan's framing around this was, "I'm going to get a limited number of very high-value clients, and I'm charging them full rate, full freight." And that's going to basically make most of my profitability numbers for my firm to work. And then I'm going to take a similar chunk of clients there. I forget her numbers. It was something like 25 high-value clients that make the math work and then another 10 or 20 clients at the other end of the extreme that she... I forget her model, she charged either nothing or very, very little. She's not even vaguely remotely trying to make them profitable. But there's only a limited number of seats for the ones who can fit the barbell at the left because you don't want to tilt the barbell and make it fall over. You got to keep it in client load balance.
So, there's only a certain number of them, and everyone else is at the other end of the barbell to make sure it stays balanced. So she doesn't have a bunch in the middle and then a bunch of smaller ones on the left because then the bar falls over. She's taking all the one... I'm trying to overemphasize the barbell analogy, but I think it's actually a really good visual. As people are listening, I'm drawing with my hands for the people who are watching this on video.
But this idea of, yeah, Morgan has no average clients. None of her clients are at the average because they're all wildly higher or wildly lower. And that's how she keeps the barbell in balance. And so, when you do your best work with a small subset of people or large... You can choose your own numbers of how many clients you want to serve. But when you do your best work with a focused subset of people that truly pay the full dollar amount it takes to be financially strong and successful as a firm and then you want to do some things for other clients, now it's fine because she's not taking so many it makes the barbell lopsided.
And she has enough high-value clients that the firm is financially healthy, regardless of whether they generate a material revenue of the clients at the other end. And now she can simply keep a certain number of slots to serve the people at the other end of the barbell the way that she wants to serve them without being tied up with, "Is this profitable enough client for me who meets my minimums?"
Carl: Yeah. Yeah, I love that. Does that work? Because I remember years ago, there was a firm that started in Tucson, and Bob Swift, TCI Wealth Management. And Bob was, as I recall, and I know Bob, but as I recall, son of a pastor. And he started teaching these workshops in the public library. And at first it was free, and then he started charging $25 to come to the workshop. And people kept saying, "Take my money. Take... Will you manage my money?" And he was like, "No. No, leave me alone." The truth is...
Michael: So he's graceful of give back to the public for free accidentally turned out to be a business development.
Carl: This really amazing business that they've built. But Bob was always trying to figure out, how do I get back? Suddenly, we found ourselves calculating the tax deduction on the private jet. And like, how did I get back? And as I recall, they started a separate division, maybe even a foundation that was specifically focused on... And as I recall, it was really discipline-oriented. You had to meet with them, you had to have an automatic investment. You had to be committed to it. If you were committed, they were going to commit resources to it. And I always wonder if that... Where that falls apart is if those client situations are very complex and demand a lot of time, because I always wonder, can you run a division of your business? Could you run a foundation? Could you even run a break-even division of your business? Or is it always going to be supplemented by either, A, charity, or, B, the profit margins from another side of the client business?
Michael: I feel like at the end of the day, math is math. It has cost to deliver these services. The money has to come from somewhere. So, clients are paying...
Carl: And it's just not going to be enough.
Michael: ...their margins are paying, or charitable donations are paying. I don't know where else the dollars...
Carl: Yeah, I guess that's the other version of this, is you set up a very specific where this is a.... It is actually called what it actually is. And that's a charitable, a foundation where you're doing your own work and you can do... Then you get really quickly into the model of like, "I could send people to pro bono places, and I could volunteer my time there. So, I don't even have to set up the charity."
Michael: True, true.
One-To-Many Financial Advice: Group Coaching And Workshops [19:36]
Carl: Let me ask you a question. What are we trying to solve for? Doesn't this get really...? This is really... It's a feeling we're trying to solve for. We don't like saying no. We want to help more people. Or mare we trying to solve a global problem where there's not enough advice for people who need it?
Michael: No, again, though, how do we expand the reach of advice for the fact that there just literally aren't enough advisors for all the consumers? I think that's a conversation for another day. Again, we can go back to that. But I'm just thinking that we get these scenarios, and saying no sucks, and saying minimum sucks slightly less, but it's still pretty sucky. What are the versions of yes?
Carl: I like that. It's a very different question in how do we solve the global problem of the shortage of advice? And part of this is feelings. But it's how do we solve this locally on a local level ourselves?
Michael: In the vein of what you were just highlighting to me, the next is maybe there's a one-to-many thing. Maybe there's a group thing.
Carl: I love that.
Michael: Maybe it is like, oh, we teach a financial foundations class at the library every year or every quarter or every month or every Saturday morning. If that's your jam to achieve your cosmic karma balance. And like, "Hey, I don't know that you're a great fit for the ongoing advice services that we offer, but we have a financial foundations workshop that runs every Saturday morning or every first Saturday of the month or whatever it is. We'd love for you to come to it. Here's the information. It's only a $25 entry fee if we're going to use TCI's example." And people having a couple dollars of skin in the game. So, great. Now, instead of I could take on 20 or 30 or 40 of these at the other end of the barbell to balance the high-dollar end of the barbell, it's like, "No, we're going to workshops." I wonder if I can do 40 of these every workshop if we get enough people who are reaching out and asking for help and services, and God bless, maybe we'll even build a word-of-mouth thing around it and it gets more popular over time.
Carl: I love that idea of basically group financial coaching.
Michael: Yeah, coaching, education.
Carl: Especially around a niche, right? If we have a specific niche...
Michael: No, I don't. You said it right the first time. Don't start with me. Niche.
Carl: If we have a specific problem that we're trying to solve, then it makes it very... Even the idea of financial circles where you've got, there may even be some collective value between the group accountability. I've seen models that way too of like, "Yeah, I can't help you there, but we do do this thing, we do it once a quarter." It's seven weeks. We meet every Wednesday night at 7:30 or 9:00 after the kids are in bed. And it's an hour, and we have 12 people and there's 10 spots. So, we have two left. Would you like to join? That would be amazing. And it's for X, Y, Z.
Michael: And again, I just think about those in, because I'm a reach impact guy, how those cycle over time. Your example, it's seven weeks, and we take a dozen people through at a time. Cool. So, if I'm really jazzed for this, I could run four to six of these a year through each cycle, assuming you want to get a little bit of holidays, vacation there. So, great. 50-plus people a year, 500 people over the next decade. I'm never going to have 500 clients in my advisory firm. I'm helping way more people with my seven-week program that I'm cycling through than I'll ever help as individual clients in the advisory firm. And I could charge a nominal amount if I want to, but the point's not the money. This is your pro bono time, this is your give-back time. This is your tribunal time.
Carl: I really wish more certified financial planners who know what they're doing [were doing this] – because there are a bunch of financial influencers who are doing this sort of stuff, and they don't know what they're doing, and they're causing... Some of them do, of course, but whatever. I just wish...
Michael: Well, that's a good point. And if you really want to amp it up, you don't do it in your local library, you do it on TikTok and see if you can build a giant following.
Carl: Yeah, but wouldn't it be great if there was a thousand CFPs who each had built one-to-many online course? And now we start to see the compounding impact because other people are doing it, and they don't have the chops that you have. I love that model because again, that's like, "Okay. What does that turn into?" Well, it's a book. If you want to go a little deeper, every quarter we do a seven-week thing, and we'll take you through it. And guess what? It's a curriculum. Guess what? You don't have to teach it.
After you do it a couple of rounds, you've got a junior advisor who does it, you've got an intern who does it. People come through. You could start scaling that, and even if you never scale it and you just do one a quarter for 12 people, even that, the impact you will make is so important, and we're clearly not going to serve all the people that we need to serve, and we need to do something, right?
Running Office Hours (And Managing Scope Creep) [25:32]
Michael: The other model of this that I would highlight was an advisor I bumped into a couple of years ago who basically outright said... He was, I don't know, quite at the level that you mentioned earlier. But he was moving in the direction of my business, which now is mostly helping my clients calculate the tax deduction on their private jet. And he evolved that direction and pretty much outright said, "It's been very good to me and financially successful, and I have mountain loads of guilt around the fact that this is what my life has become."
That it's very remunerative and I'm helping these people in really meaningful ways. And I help people optimize the tax deductions on their private jets now. And his solution for it was that he laid out an offering that he would do two one-hour financial planning advice sessions every Friday. It's 2:00 to 4:00 or 3:00 to 5:00 in the afternoon or something. You just Calendly set up and stuff, you schedule it online. It was 50 bucks for the one hour. So, it meant to be very accessible. And that was his Friday afternoon routine every week.
Carl: So good. That's great.
Michael: So, it was like, look, I help 100 people every year. Two every Friday, 50 weeks. Take one or two off. He's like, "I am recycling my karma back into the world in a positive way as proactively as I can." And he said the key for it... He kind of took this to an extreme. I'm going to not do justice to how he framed it. But he says basically, "My goal is to be as ridiculously helpful for you in the hour that I possibly can be. But we're trying to help a lot of people. It's like you get an hour. You can't come back. We're here to help as many people as we possibly can in this time window."
And there were two interesting things that came from it. One just, I think he had a.... It was really cool to say he was helping 100 people in need every year to offset the private jet clients. But the thing that had caught my eye around it as well is... Look, what bogs most of us down sometimes to the point that we create burnout and sustainability issues, it's not that you helped them, it's that most of us only have one model, which is we have long-term, ongoing clients who we work with on a permanent lifetime basis. My goal is to be here until you die and then work with your kids and grandchildren.
And that's a lot of hours and a really valuable seat on the bus for someone to take permanently. And the essence of what he was doing was, instead of having, I don't know, two of his very high-dollar clients, where he probably spends 50 hours a year, 100 hours for two clients, he's like, "I don't want two clients to take this slot. I'm going to help 100 people by not making it a slot that any one client can take. It has to be a constant flow and in rotation of them." And his was a little extreme with the, "You get one hour, you can't come back."
Carl: Yeah, I love that.
Michael: You got to make this as valuable as possible. But to me, there's an underlying piece I thought was really striking, which is just when you approach it to say the work we're going to do, when we're going to say yes and not no, is hourly. It's not because hourly is magically profitable. In fact, he charged way below his hourly rate. He again just really wanted, I think, people to have skin in the game. He didn't care about the money. It didn't add up materially for him. It's that when you do it hourly instead of one client that you're going to serve 5 or 10 or 20 hours a year or whatever your service model is, it's not 1 client, 20 hours. It's 20 clients, 20 hours.
Carl: Yeah, I love that.
Michael: And now just the number of people that you can help in a meaningful enough way that you're going to spend a really focused hour, and I don't know, you don't have to do it in his level of extreme. Maybe you can give them up to five hours' worth if they want to buy five hours. But just that idea that if you make the advice much more limited in scope, buy the hour for a very limited number of hours. We're not here to do a comprehensive financial plan for you and now you're back in the selling $3,000 financial plans business. I'm going to spend time with you and be as awesomely impactful as I can in the meeting. We're going to pull things up on the screen and get stuff done in these meetings to help you advance forward. And if I keep the scope that focused, I can just help a lot more people. So, now it's not even a yes versus no. It's a “I could say yes every time they do it”. Most of us, even as many of those as we get, it's not that many. I'm betting if you committed no more than two hours to every single one, you could cycle through all of the ones that you get in a year, and it won't be…
Carl: Yeah, and add a meaningful impact.
Michael: Add meaningful impact for them, and it won't even take you two hours every Friday that it took him because most of us don't have that many people. Knock, knock.
Carl: I love that. Plus, the other benefit of that is just reps anyway. Even if you don't think of it as marketing, forget that... There's a world in which that is great marketing. But forget that for a second for this discussion. It's just reps and help, and you feel good about it. I remember seeing... There was this architect once who was trying to build his architecture business. And remember, wasn't it Lucy who would set up Lucy & Peanuts that would set up that little stand that would be like "advice" or something a quarter? Remember that? Yeah, and Peanuts? He did that at the local farmer's market. It said, "Architectural ideas, a quarter." You would come, and they would say, like, "I want to do this with my bathroom." And he would draw right there and just be like, "Here." And I just always found that I was... One time I wanted to do that at our local department. Like, "Financial ideas," or "Financial..." I don't know that I'd say financial advice, but financial ideas.
Michael: Then I got advisory contracts with the whole...
Carl: Yeah, if you have financial questions, I've got an answer. And the thing I liked about this model you're pointing to is mainly the reps, just the chance to make a difference. I think that's a great way to be able to say yes. Love that.
Michael: Well, I suppose in that vein, if you're talking about getting reps in, there's, again, now we're going to get into the how do we actually expand the reach. But I don't know, if you're a larger firm, do all of your associate advisors need to do this two hours every Friday indefinitely? Because it's just going to get them reps with another 100 clients of practice having conversations and getting to know and understand folks because you're trying to get them more client exposure before they work with the firm's bread and butter clients where the dollar stakes are higher.
Carl: Totally. Love that, Michael.
Michael: Awesome. Thank you, Carl.
Carl: Okay. Cheers.
Michael: Cheers.
