#FASuccess Ep 438: Boosting Client Retention And Satisfaction By Asking Better Questions As Your Authentic Self, With Nikki Savage

Resources Featured In This Episode:

• Nikki Savage: Website | LinkedIn
• MoneyGuide Wealth Studios

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Full Transcript:

Michael: Welcome, Nikki Savage, to the "Financial Advisor Success" podcast.

Nikki: Hi, Michael. Thank you so much for having me.

Michael: I really appreciate you joining us today for a conversation I'm looking forward to and diving into what does it really mean to have good client relationships. Normally, the financial advice business to me just it is a relationship business. I think that's part of why we've so robustly resisted the rise of technology of computers, and the internet, and robo, and now AI because human beings are...we're wired as social animals for relationships with other human beings in a way that we just don't really bond with technology in the same way. And I think ultimately, it's the relationship that helps clients trust, and accept, and implement our recommendations, and it's relationships that help clients stay the course through volatile markets when we say like, "You're going to be okay. You don't need to sell everything here."

But we all say that we build great relationships with the clients. And I find still that some of us seem to have a little higher retention, get a little more referrals, seem to have a little bit of a deeper relationship with their clients than others. And just as someone I know has had great success in this regard, I'm excited to delve deeper with you today into... I think about the question, what really makes a great client relationship? What's the difference between a good advisor-client relationship and a great advisor-client relationship?

Nikki: That's interesting because I really think the answer could depend on each advisor and what their clients appreciate about them the most. So, as I was reflecting myself and getting prepared for this conversation, I was curious to know, what do my clients value most about what I bring to the table? And you've got to be comfortable enough to ask them that at some point and see what they say and then figure out the common themes and why are they saying those things. So, figure out what it is that you naturally do really well and what they're telling you and go from there. I would say that my clients, they would say that they feel heard, they feel understood, and they also know that they're going to be cared for.

Michael: I'm struck by just how you framed that. Even at the beginning, the answer depends on the advisor and what their clients appreciate about them. It's one of the things that's always stuck out to me. In my early years, one of the advisors that I got to know in the office in the firm that I was at was just a really technical advisor. I probably bonded with him out of fellow nerdiness that he liked to talk about technical rules and tax laws and ERISA regulations and such back then. He was very involved on the 401(k) side. And his clients loved it. They loved that he could nerd out on all of this stuff, and they basically couldn't stump him with their weird situations.

And what struck me was he had what now I would characterize as a lot of engineer-type clients. And it was only a few years later that I interact with a lot of other advisors, some of whom got really exasperated at certain engineer clients that wanted to dissect through every single page of the projection that we give him to really start to appreciate, "Oh, maybe clients actually self-sort a little bit more than we give them credit for." In my sort of extreme example here, the ones who really want to go deep on the numbers end up finding their way to an advisor that goes super deep on the numbers. And the ones whose eyes glaze over when you do that, because that is not how they want to be connected to their advisor and the kind of relationship they have, they find advisors who fit for them. So, I'm struck by your comment. The answer depends on the advisor and what their clients appreciate about them, that I... It wasn't something I appreciated until years later that we show up a lot of different ways and still manage to find the clients who like the way we show up sometimes.

Learning To Listen To Worthwhile Feedback While Drowning Out The 'Noise' [07:18]

Nikki: Mm-hmm. And that's the hard part is do you...because you see these moments of success and you think, "Oh, I can do that. I can replicate that," or, "This makes sense to me." And you are tempted to piecemeal it and put it together and make it your own, but that'll get you so far. I would say you've got to go back a step and figure out your own natural strengths and abilities. And there's all those surveys and personality types and all that. And some of them are fun and silly. And some of them…there's quite a bit you could learn about yourself. So, I think, yeah, there's no one secret sauce or silver bullet. I think the answer is unique to each person, you know, looking at yourself. What are you good at? What do you enjoy doing? What are you passionate about? All of those. And then finding ways to find people that appreciate that because not everyone's a good fit. And that's something I would go back and tell myself a long time ago is you don't want every single client that's going to come knock on your way.

Michael: So, share with us more, I guess, of that journey. How do you think about your own natural strengths and abilities and finding them over your career?

Nikki: It's a process. I don't think it ever truly stops, but I did struggle for a long time because I am a woman and I'm very much used to being the only woman in the room full of men. And I'm also very competitive and so I did the things that I was told and what I understood would be the steps that I needed to take to be successful. Say this. Do this this way. Research this. All the things that everyone else in the room was doing. And if I did it differently, I felt wrong and I felt like a failure. And this still happens from time to time. Everyone's going to have an opinion about you.

Especially as a woman, you were judged 20 different ways before you ever even opened your mouth. Your hair, is it up or down? Is it styled? The color, the length? Your makeup, are you wearing it? Are you not? Are you wearing too much? Your clothes, is it dress, suits, pants, heels? Are they too high? Are they open toed? You have all of these things that people are judging about you before they ever even know who you are in your background. So, it's hard. You're walking on eggshells. And I thought that I needed to listen to that feedback because I do value criticism, and I want to know how I can get better. But when you start listening to everyone else and you're not listening to your own self, you get lost. And that's what happened for a while. And then when I finally was able to kind of drown out some of that noise and I have some great friends and colleagues now that I didn't have earlier in my career, I have a very supportive husband who also tells me that sometimes that's just head trash and he needs to tell me that. And friends do the same thing. So, it's a process, leaning into and trusting what you know to be true, while still listening and kind of giving some credence to what you're being told from other people but don't let it drive you I guess is what I would say.

Michael: So, can you give me an example just of, I don't know, what they told you before and what Nikki does now instead?

Nikki: I have been told before that I needed to tell more jokes in meetings to break the ice, or that I needed to do a better job of building rapport. And I'm trying not to laugh because I think that's so funny because rapport for some people is to check the boxes. How was your weekend? How are you feeling about the weather? Oh, my gosh. Like the shallow stuff that you can say at the beginning to, I guess, yeah, break the ice, I don't believe in that. It feels fake for me when I hear someone else asking me those questions when they ask it all the time. So, acknowledging that I hear those suggestions because maybe that works for them but then paying attention and knowing that the way that I actually do go very deep with clients and then also leaning into and having some proof now of my retention being the highest out of everyone in my office having highest client satisfaction survey scores. Now, having some of those metrics to fall back on, that I get a lot less and less of those suggestions, but this still happens.

Michael: So, I'm just curious. So, your firm does client satisfaction scores like does a survey to clients of how satisfied are you with your advisor?

Nikki: Yes.

Michael: So, how does that work?

Nikki: They are surveyed once a year. There's a few different numerical questions that they'll get, a score from one to 10, and then a few open text box. And at the end of the year, those are looked at, and that's really important. And I've worked other firms before where clients were surveyed much more frequently and I love it. Good, bad, I would rather know how they really are feeling. Maybe they feel a little more comfortable saying something in an email versus to my face. So, yeah, I think it's a great tool.

Michael: Interesting. So, clients get surveyed and then the advisors in the firm actually get the feedback on how are you scoring relative to average or others in the firm so you can otherwise... I guess we don't really know what a good score is unless we have some benchmark to compare it to.

Nikki: Right.

Michael: And so that became your guide about whether the approach is working at the end of the day like, "My client's satisfaction scores are through the roof and that's what matters."

Nikki: That was ultimately the quantitative answer to some of those suggestions that I had heard recently, but I also knew and I felt that my clients really appreciated me because they told me as such. So, at the end of the day, when I finally just kind of let go of all the pressure of, "This person is telling me this, this person is telling me this, and that other person..." There's a lot of voices out there also, not just where you work but in the universe. And once I started drowning those out, processing it and leaning into what do I feel and what do I know that I'm good at, that's when I knew I was doing the right thing. The data, of course, came a little bit later in this particular example.

Taking A Personal Touch To Opening Client Meetings [15:58]

Michael: So, can you share more of…what the approach is now? How do you open client meetings and get going if it's not the, we'll call, the traditional icebreaker. So, how is the weekend? How's the weather? All that good stuff.

Nikki: So, often there's things going on in their lives that I know about even in between meetings that we're just picking right back up where we left off. How was your trip to Colorado to see your son or have you looked at any more lake houses yet? Things are going and I'm just mindful of those. So, it's not a 'check the box' kind of starter. We're jumping in and talking about the fun stuff.

Michael: And are you one of those folks who's just naturally good at retaining those details across all the zillion clients that we sometimes serve?

Nikki: No, not not usually. It's something that comes when there's a certain spark, a certain feeling of joy. Those are the things I'm able to remember. I can't remember anyone's birthday or even...names are hard for me for a while. But if we talk about something and I see them light up or it's just that moment, I'm going to remember that more than anything else from the meeting. And so that's also part of who I am as an advisor is trying to create and spark that joy for my clients as well.

Michael: Interesting. So, I guess I'm still just trying to visualize how client meetings flow for you. What's different that your satisfaction scores or retention come in so much stronger than others?

Nikki: If I think back to when I first started, you have to do the things and go through the reports and get the numbers. And it is more quantitative. And as you're going through those things and onboarding a new client, you learn that but along the way, you're learning and understanding the intangibles—the family dynamic and how those change. For example, I have a client, and she's got two sons. One is becoming more and more distant. I found out some not so great things about him. Anyway, she was coming to me and talking to our meeting, "I just don't know what to do. I'm really surprised at his behavior. And I've got my other son." And she's kind of just telling me what's going on in her life and her family. And so we finally come to this realization that there's a financial component to it. So, I said, "Let's do this. Instead of reworking... We don't need to rework the whole plan or numbers or whatever. Let's talk about ways we can impact your other son now. And I know you're not trying to do anything bad or wrong or whatever. You're just trying to do the right thing. And how would this make you feel if we did X, Y, and Z?" And she loved it. And so now it's about their families. It's about their real-world life, what's going on, what do we need to do with the assets, if anything. And sometimes there's not even a financial answer to it. It's just, "Here's what's developed in my life since the last time I talked to you." Does that sound weird?

Michael: No, no, not at all. I think I'm still just trying to distinguish between that and... I mean, nominally there's lots of industry research, right? You gave the example earlier, right? We should know our client's birthdays and the names of their children and the names of their pets so that we can engage conversation around it. I don't know, at least my feeling of how the industry frames that up, it still feels very cookie cutter-ish, right? It's the shallow version of small talks sometimes. And what you're describing, I think, is a deeper level of connection with the client, but I'm trying to figure out how...

Nikki: How did I get that?

Michael: Yeah, how to articulate the difference between the two.

Nikki: I think it is a process. I'm not going to jump into the "air your dirty laundry to me" on day one. But what I have learned is that meeting someone at the very beginning, asking hard questions, sometimes re-educating them on things that they've heard and we have to go back a few steps before we can go forward...and that's a lot of the work I think that people don't want to do. They want to just onboard a client, get them invested, charge them their fee, and that's it. And I want to know upfront, what would it take for you to fire me? What does a successful relationship look like? Why are we here? How do we get here? What was the catalyst for this meeting today?

Michael: Wait. Now I'm struck by these. Slow down on those because there are some interesting pieces in there. Oh, I think you framed it as like, what would it take for you to fire me? So, what does a good relationship look like, or is that really the way you frame it to a new client? What would it take for you to fire me? Because I want to make sure I never do that.

Nikki: I wouldn't rapid fire the questions, but those are all things that I want to know. And it's not necessarily the "I want to know what not to do." It's "I want to know if are they in the right mindset to have this type of relationship," because if they immediately go into performance, now I know you're potentially not a good fit. This is not a good fit for me. Somebody else can be your portfolio manager, that's fine, but we all know that it's not just about performance.

Michael: Right.

Nikki: So, either I'm going to try and coach you and see if I can get you to the point where I think we would be a good long-term fit or pretty quickly identify that that's not worth my time.

Michael: And so how do you frame that question? I mean, is it in the 'fire me' context or in I guess the other version like what would make this a great relationship? How do you actually like to ask the question?

Nikki: It would come last. One of the first things I like to ask is, what's the catalyst for this meeting today? We're not meeting by accident. There's something that's happened or they're worried about happening or maybe a good thing. And now they're shifting and looking at things a little bit differently. So, okay, what was the catalyst for us meeting today? Have you worked with a professional in the past? Tell me about that experience. And then I know how that relationship was framed, assuming there was one, and their vibe about it, their tone...obviously it didn't work out because we're meeting today, but I have a better idea of what their expectations are and just kind of leaving it open-ended. Tell me about that experience. What are you hoping to get out of this conversation today? And then ultimately, what would it take for you to step away and say, "This is not a good fit." What would it take for you to fire me?

Michael: Okay. And so these are all questions you would be getting into at the very beginning of a discovery process. We're not even in client mode yet. We're still in prospect mode at this point.

Nikki: Correct. That's my favorite is then I can... Day 1: Are we a good fit? Do we do we keep the conversation going? When you get some clients that have maybe been transitioned to you from somewhere else, then I still ask those when it's us meeting, but it's a little bit of a different dynamic because they already have some stuff maybe ingrained in them that is a little different than my style.

Michael: Right. Well, what was the catalyst for meeting today? Well, Bob told me he's retiring, so apparently you're my new advisor. Let's get to know each other. So, are there other questions that you like to explore in that initial meeting? You said you like to ask some hard questions. So, some of these are pretty hard and pointed. Are there others that you use often in this context?

Nikki: Really the only one that I like to use pretty frequently is if there's something that they say that just catches my ear, and I feel like there's more to it. I heard you say this. Tell me more about that.

Michael: Okay.

Nikki: Where is that statement coming from? I don't know if it's like a certain word that they use or the way that they say it, but every now and then, I just catch something and it's like, "You know what? I feel like there's more behind that."

Tactics For 'Re-Educating' Clients When Necessary [27:07]

Michael: So, you said a part of the process early on for you is also re-educating. So, can you explain more about the context or what you mean by that?

Nikki: Yes. I know we all hear this. Clients, they want to have their cake and eat it too, right? All the upside, no downside. And at some point, someone's going to tell me if they just want someone that's going to protect them during the downside. I said, "Okay, let's talk about that. What do you mean by that?" "You're the professional. If you see things look like we're going to go through some tough times, I expect that you're going to prevent me from going down with the market." I said, "Okay, that's not true. Let's talk about that. Let's unpack it." And here's the re-education, right? Taking them back to the basics on their asset allocation and how that is the most impactful decision to their long-term success. Those are the guardrails, right? And I prepared them. I said, "You're going to get tired of me asking you this, but I always need to know your cash flow needs, your time horizon, and your goals. That's critical." When you look at your overall asset allocation and whatever we decide is going to go in stocks, yes, that's going to be actively managed and we'll be tactical, but we will not take you out of the market. We're not going to go to cash. We're not going to have a huge shift of your asset allocation when markets get volatile. And Michael, people don't...they've not heard that before. It's so frustrating because that's not the easy answer, but I re-educate them. I tell them over and over and over, "We have to talk about this every meeting and just make sure. But I'm not going to lie to you because when markets do get choppy, you know that you're okay. We've talked about it. We've put a plan in place before. So, let's talk about it right now when things are great, and then we're not panicking later."

Michael: So, are there other domains of re-education? I know a lot of us have to deal with the, "Well, you'll own stocks when they're going up and then get me out when they're going down, right?" So, that one crops up a lot. Are there others that crop up for you around opportunities for re-education?

Nikki: The other one that I would say is they've heard some rules of thumb about they should be more conservative and their age minus their time horizon. That's a formula for stocks versus bonds, and I tell them that there is some... I appreciate the thought process, but there's more to the story than that. And so I, again, go back to the basics and the basics are boring and nobody wants to hear that, but that's the reality. That's what our financial plans are built off of. They're not based on timing the market or immediately shifting into a super conservative portfolio when they retire. Let's talk about all the levers and the impacts to your plan.

Michael: So, help me understand just how this prospect meeting flows between... You've got some the hard questions, as it were. We've got some re-educating. I think you said you tend to come back at the end towards what would it take for you to step away and decide that this is not a good fit, right? The "what would it take for you to fire me" question. So, how does all of this come together in practice for you? Is there a typical flow or kind of a cadence to how you manage through a prospect meeting?

Nikki: It's usually a little jarring because from what I've seen, a lot of folks haven't been asked those types of questions that early on. So, there's a little bit of a, "Huh," of a shift. And when I do go into re-education mode, I know that it has to take multiple times to get there. But what I found to be successful is that I'm taking notes, I'm framing the meeting, and I do have a couple of those questions that I like to ask. At the end of the meeting, I'm also finding out what other planning components have they done in the past and highlighting to myself like, "Oh, I'm not going deeper on those right now. I'm just finding out what's been done, what's been their experience, how do they feel about it." And then I'm making notes to myself, okay, this is critical item number one, two, and three that we've got to get done in what order. And then after that whole discovery meeting, I'm summarizing and recapping it in an email. It's kind of long, but it captures in bullet points. Prospect, is this a good depiction of our conversation today? And nine times out of ten, I get a response acknowledging like, "Oh, that's great. Thank you. Yes." And so that is the foundational level layer of my clients feeling hard.

Michael: Because you can literally show it back to them with the post-meeting recap email to reflect back. Are these the things that were important to you? When they say yes, that's like, "Yeah, so Nikki gets me."

Nikki: Yeah, and that's just a teeny, tiny step in the right direction. But doing that consistently is what starts to build to that, "Okay, she's listening, she hears me, and she's following up and doing the things that she says she's going to do."

Michael: Out of curiosity in our increasingly technology, AI-driven world, are you trying or a fan of the various notetaking tools that help us to synthesize said meeting summaries and recaps?

Nikki: Michael, I'm trying to be open-minded. We've just recently rolled out one within the firm, so I'm trying it. I don't like it, but it saves me time. I don't have a lot of spare time to just sit around typing notes all day. So, I'm going to keep using it. I'm very specific about how I want my notes sectioned and how it flows. And our notetaker doesn't do that very well.

Michael: Okay. So, it does help from the time savings. And if I heard you right, you're not thrilled with the output itself relative to the style that you like to, I guess, keep notes and reflect them back to the client.

Nikki: Right. It's great. Especially if you have a long meeting, it's going to summarize everything in bullet points, but I like to have everything in sections. Did we asset allocation? Did we talk about markets, personal stuff, changes to their cash flow? I just like to have it spaced out and sectioned so that it's so easy for me during the next meeting when I'm prepping or when I'm prepping for the next meeting, I can go back and it's all right there and it's easy to follow.

Michael: So, what are the kind of, I don't know, categories or sections for you? I heard asset allocation of markets, cash spending needs related stuff, the personal stuff. Are there others that you categorize as you're taking notes or recapping?

Nikki: I will especially like this time of year, taxes, right, or estate planning. I've done this style of notes for so long. At my other firm, I did that because if I searched also through the whole CRM, it would pull up when we've talked about those topics and that was really helpful. I love being able to do that.

Michael: Okay.

Nikki: Or retirement like when clients have that cooking, right, you want to know, has that date changed? Just things that are easy to search and look back on.

Michael: So, the categories are like your search tags.

Nikki: Mm-hmm.

Michael: To find when you do historical searches in the CRM.

Nikki: Right.

Michael: Is that also how you like to structure the recap emails to clients?

Nikki: No, I like to put it as like, who has what homework? Here's what my homework is going to be. Here's what you're responsible for. And then here's our next step and when our next meeting is scheduled for. And it really helps to keep the ball rolling and progressing, and we're not constantly going back and forth. And did you send me this? Where was the the ball in the court?

Nikki's Discovery Process [37:19]

Michael: So, how does this shift for you when someone says, "Nikki, I really like the questions and how this is going. I'd like to become a client." And now we're into, I guess, the next stage of discovery process.

Nikki: So, the current operation is we build an investment proposal and make the case to manage those assets. And we're going to show you exactly how our investments, what we're proposing, why it's better than what you currently have. And it is very transparent. I mean, position by position, there's no secret to what the proposed investment strategy looks like. Then we say, "We do this first. We get paperwork to link on and manage these accounts." And then immediately after, we want to start the financial planning process. In a perfect world, I would prefer to do all of the planning upfront and then do the investment management shortly after, but it is like pulling teeth sometimes to get clients to get you all the data that you need to do the financial plan. So, it's a tug of war.

Michael: And then tell me more about the discovery meeting as you get further into the financial planning process. Are there other more hard questions and re-educating at this stage?

Nikki: I think what I try to... I try to just set the right expectations. This is a heavy lift, and as a perfectionist, I also struggle with getting everything down to the exact right number, but you've got to throw that out the window. That's okay. It's not going to be perfect, but we just want to get at least 80% of this now. And then from there, it'll just get better and better and more finetuned. So, number one, let them know that this is important. It needs to be done and most people get that. But there's a few people who are like, "Oh, yeah, I've heard of financial planning before," and they don't quite grasp it. Luckily, having a visual to show them that our software is dynamic and here's how we can use it to answer some questions that might come up down the road. Once they see that, they're like, "Oh, yeah, I definitely want to do that."

Michael: So, what visual do you use?

Nikki: So, I have a version of MoneyGuide called Wealth Studios. You have your base case and then you have these other alternative scenarios. And when you show them your screen and you say additional scenarios, spending more money or retiring earlier, you just click on those. You toggle those scenarios on and it updates the Monte Carlo in just a couple seconds. And then you can visually see the increase or decrease in success and the increase or decrease in portfolio assets and net worth over time.

Michael: And you're doing this... This is part of the plan delivery or you have a hypothetical client so you can just show the planning process, like the output, what you're going to get.

Nikki: I'm showing them a hypothetical. So, back to the discovery meeting and learning about their prior experience and working with a professional that they manage your assets. Have you done a financial plan? What does financial planning mean to you? If I get the feeling that they don't know what that is or don't appreciate it, then that's when visuals are very powerful. So, I can just show them like, "Hey, this is how we would use this for you, and here's what it's going to take to get there. This is the process for financial planning." And again, just setting the right expectations upfront and letting them know it's a heavy lift, it's okay. We can always work backwards, back into some of those unknown numbers, but let's just at least get started. So, not so much re-educating but setting things in the right order, explaining it, and just making sure they know why they're doing it and what it's going to take.

Michael: Are there other questions you like to use here just to delve deeper into their actual situation?

Nikki: I think everyone asks... You ask your client their goals and they tell you, "Retire. I want to have X million..." If they give me a number like, "I need $5 million. That's what my goal is to get there," you could very easily just stop and say, "Okay, cool. Yeah, $5 million. That would be a nice sum to live off of, but it's like, why? Why $5 million? Why not $6 million? Why not $4 million? Why $5 million?"

Michael: I always like those moments. $5 million, that's a very precise number. How did you arrive at $5 million?

Nikki: Yeah, it's just arbitrary. And by asking that, they probably hadn't realized before that that was just an arbitrary number and it doesn't hit them all at once either. It's over time. But sometimes it's just asking a little bit more like, okay, well... I feel like the plan delivery with the software that I use, being able to show different levers being pulled at the same time and to which degree, that's when people get really excited. I'll say, "Okay, well, which of these is more important to you? Is it spending more or is it retiring sooner or is it the kids for college?" And so all of a sudden, it's an explosion of questions and what about this and that. I mean, it's so cool to see how excited they get about financial planning once they get to the plan delivery and how they're... I say, "I want to put you in the driver's seat here. We've done the work. Now let's figure out, of all these things, what is most important to you?"

Michael: And so that's the point where you're back in Wealth Studios with base case and alternative scenarios and having the opportunity to start toggling amongst scenarios, say, "Well, let's see what happens if you dial the spending back," or, "Let's see what happens if you put more towards the kids' graduate school. Let's look and see."

Nikki: Yeah, and that's when some of the secrets... I don't want to say secrets, but that's when some of the cards that are being held close to the chest, that's when they start to come out. I just thought of one... They're actually the son and daughter-in-law of another client of mine. And they're young, just recently married. And then we go through the whole plan, and we're talking about things. And then she's like, "Well, we haven't talked about kids. We don't know." And I'm like, "So, tell me more about that." And she's like, "Well, don't tell my mom, but we're going to start trying soon." And then they start unraveling with all this information about they are thinking this and then whatever. And it's just so rewarding to be... that privilege to that information, because all of these things, it doesn't matter the performance. It matters like the things in their life, their plan, their families, right? It's so cool.

What Nikki's Practice Looks Like Today [46:09]

Michael: So, can you now just share with us more context about your practice itself? I mean, who are your clients? How many clients do you serve? Paint a little bit more of the picture for us of the practice of Nikki Savage and the clients that she serves.

Nikki: Sure. I mean, right now, I manage a little over $150 million in AUM and it's about 100 households. Some of that is multi-generation and some kids or grandkids that they don't have as much but they're in that number. So, about 100 households, families I would say. So, these are not ultra-high net worth. They're maybe $2 million to $4 million is the bulk, I would say, of AUM size. And so these are just people that probably didn't...they're not from a long line of wealth. They either worked maybe really hard to save or some of them have stepped into it unexpectedly.

So, a lot of my clients are just, I guess, between $2 million and $5 million, good, hard-working people. What I am finding now, again, going back to what I told you earlier about just being myself and leaning into what I'm naturally good at is all of a sudden, over the last year and a half, almost two years, I have a lot of women who have stepped into this inheritance or some other... What I'm just going to call women in transition. All of a sudden, they're managing money and assets, and they have not experienced that before themselves, whether because they didn't have the time or the interest. The reasons are a little bit different, but that is what I enjoy. That's what I'm passionate about.

What gets me really excited is them coming to me and telling me that they felt comfortable enough asking me questions that they never would have asked someone before or they had never asked before. The woman's 65 years old and never would have asked, "What's a stock?" There's this shame, and it frustrates me because a lot of women, they take care of a lot of things, right? Their parents, their kids, their careers, their household, all the things. This is another thing to juggle and they don't have... Not just women, nobody should feel embarrassed that they aren't as educated or don't know the complexities of capital markets, right? That's why I exist. And I provide a safe space to meet them where they're at. And they can feel that. And time and time and time and time again lately, these women, they walk away and they just say, "I feel so much relief after meeting with you."

Creating Meaningful In-Person Events With Her Ideal Target Clients [49:47]

Michael: So, is this becoming like a more intentional focus or specialization for you around women in transition?

Nikki: Mm-hmm, it is. So, once I was realizing how quickly this was becoming my niche, I want to lean into this. And I at one point had asked someone else, I said, "Will you be my mentor?" I learned the hard way that you have to go seek those relationships out. You're not always going to be in a place where that announces itself. So, I asked like, "Hey, this is what I'm passionate about." And she encouraged me to speak to other people that were also passionate about these things and got some ideas. And we're just a small group of women who are supporting each other. And then now what I'm doing for myself, because I'm the only person doing this here where I live, is create events that are geared towards women. And so it's tough to kind of put it all into words and say what it is. My vision is that this is not just an event or a series of events. It's a movement. It's a community where we can come together and share stories, ask questions, and it's a safe space, right? I know I don't have their exact experience, but I have a culmination of a hundred different stories and things that I've learned through their experience that I can then pass on to other women. So, that's what I'm trying to do. It's been very successful so far. I'm very excited to continue it. Yeah, that's what I would... I'm leaning into it.

Michael: So, help me understand a little bit more just what these events are. I mean, where are they organized? How many people...? What's the agenda or non-agenda agenda? What's the event itself? What do you do?

Nikki: This is the fun part but also the challenging part because it's different, you know? So, this most recent event, we arranged a floral bouquet. And I intentionally chose that because I had done it before at a networking event a while back, but it's a great way to have not a task but something that you're doing and you're creating. And it kind of relieves sort of the pressure of a formal presentation of Q&A. It's like let's all get together. Create something beautiful and have sort of a round table and informal type of conversation. So, I started the event by just saying like this is who we are and why we're here and had some hors d'oeuvres and drinks. I said this is what I want to do. And I shared my vision and we created bouquets together. And along the way, we were able to just, kind of, open up the conversation to some questions and some personal and then also shared experiences.

Michael: And how many women were invited?

Nikki: It was at 10 guests plus the 2 florists and then a couple women that helped, so 10 guests max.

Michael: And do you charge for this? I mean, is this a paid event? Is this a free invite-only gathering?

Nikki: This is invite-only. I'm covering the cost, and I'm passionate about it, but this is a business and I want to be able to grow that business and work with these women that I get along with so well. We're a great fit. So, it was a mixture of existing clients and then some potential prospects and their friends.

Michael: Okay, I was going to ask, was this client's prospects or a mixture? So, it sounds like some of each that you invite or that clients invite like bring a friend that you think would be interested.

Nikki: I was strategic about who I invited and I did ask them to bring some friends. And they were very well-received. There was a few scheduling conflicts so they ended up not working out, but I wanted to make sure my raging fans who love and appreciate me, that they were the ones centered in this event. And they had the opportunity to at least extend the invitation to someone. And, hey, I planted that seed and they didn't get to come. But you know what? That's a really cool thing and a unique experience that they were invited to. And when the next one occurs, I hope that will continue. My plan is that will continue to grow. Oh, dang, I was really bummed I missed the last event. Let me know when the next one happens.

Michael: And ultimately the goal is that some of this turns into business. There's a prospect or two who you get to meet or connect with, and that's the spark for a future relationship.

Nikki: Mm-hmm, exactly.

Nikki's Path To Sequoia Financial Group [56:09]

Michael: So, help us understand the... I guess the broader context of the business, you said earlier there's a firm that does surveys to the clients. Your satisfaction scores and retention were higher than the others. So, I'm presuming you're part of a larger firm environment. You're not a hung your own shingle setup.

Nikki: It's Sequoia.

Michael: Okay. Which is where?

Nikki: The home office is in Ohio.

Michael: And then where are you?

Nikki: Tampa, Florida.

Michael: Okay.

Nikki: So, it's kind of like each office is kind of... We're all under the same team, but we're doing things a little bit differently. So, it's like Florida is kind of always viewed as like...what we're doing is we're the Florida team, and I'm competitive so I want to make sure I'm comparing myself against my peers in Florida

Michael: Okay, and how big is the firm overall?

Nikki: I think there's maybe between $20 billion and $25 billion AUM.

Michael: Okay, okay. So, very large firm, lots of locations, I'm presuming that.

Nikki: I would say it's... I came from a larger firm before this, so to me this isn't large. But, yes, ultimately, I guess it is large.

Michael: Yeah, I guess by independent world terms, it's not large. By global financial services organizations, $20 billion is still not a huge number for some firms.

Nikki: Right.

Michael: So then what was your path to the firm?

Nikki: I had moved to Tampa in 2020 while I was working for my prior firm and then actually...there was a pivotal moment where it turned out to be a great thing, but it led me to where I'm at now. So, I was trying to find a better cultural fit than where I was before because, again, being told, and pressured, and judged, and saying that I should be a certain way, it was very, very challenging where I was at before. And so eventually there was some hardships, and I had to pivot. And then that brought me to where I am now where I can grow. It's still hard. I'm still a woman in a male-dominated industry, so those judgments are still there. Those don't go away. But the ability to lean into and work with clients and explore these opportunities that have been going really well, that is an amazing thing I did not have that before.

Michael: So, how did you pick Sequoia in particular?

Nikki: I knew there was some really great opportunities and some things that I learned about, that as far as the... Because $20 billion now is today, when I joined, it was 5, 4, much smaller, maybe even less than 1 [billion]. And so I recognized some opportunities for growth. I recognized the culture, the inclusivity, the appreciation for having a different perspective. Those were all things that I didn't have before.

Michael: And so when you switch firms, did you have to start a client base over from scratch?

Nikki: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yep.

Michael: So, where did a hundred clients come from in a couple of years? Were they able to give you some opportunities or did you have to go find that from scratch?

Nikki: A mixture. There's a lot of new opportunities. I'm very thankful for that. Some of our pipelines have been very fruitful. There's been a little bit of clients that have been transitioned because someone else has retired. And then in the short time that I've been here, I have a lot of referrals. So, it's been breakneck speed, honestly, since I've been here.

Michael: So, you said the firm's pipeline has been fruitful. So, I'm inferring they have some model or mechanism where they do marketing and then you get an opportunity to serve clients that their marketing brought in like that kind of pipeline.

Nikki: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Michael: So, where do those clients come from for you?

Nikki: There are some existing relationships with some custodians. Yes. That's been a big part of the rise in our exposure. That's where I've been able to lean into my own brand. Sequoia has great opportunities and then I have my own niche that this is who the client type, the personality that I'm going to work best with. Does that make sense?

Michael: Yeah. So, I guess I'm just trying to envision how that mixing and matching comes together between opportunities the firm's creating and you building your own niche and just where a hundred clients comes from in a couple of years. It's a lot of clients. It's a lot of activity.

Nikki: It is. Yeah, there is some opportunity that I share in just being a part of the firm, but I also have to be successful or build relationships with those partners and have them reach out to me for those relationships.

Michael: So, like building connections to the local branch, financial consultants for the custodians so that you're a source for them.

Nikki: Exactly.

Michael: So, can you help us understand more just in practice? What are the things that you have been doing that make a hundred clients appear in the last three or four years?

Nikki: So, here's what I know now that I wish would have resonated with me a long time ago is that those relationships, the networking not just for the benefit of myself to how am I going to better my own career or who am I going to know or not even that, but how are those relationships going to also better my clients? And so it's tough work to go blindly introduce yourself to someone that you've never met before. It's a little like knocking on doors and saying like, "Hey, this is who I am. How can I help you?" And the ability to be able to do that, yes, was that door was opened for me, but I had to step through it. I have to go and the extra... I have to create those other opportunities to be in front of them while I'm in the office meeting with the client, making sure I'm staying aware, staying in their eyesight, making sure that they remember who I am, reminding them of what I'm doing for some of these clients, and how I can be doing things differently.

So, it's very challenging when the actual client is part of the relationship, but you also have these other...there's this whole other dynamic of networking partners, financial consultants, and I've got to stay in front of them, make sure they like me. And that's where the whole like, "I don't want to lean too far into what everyone else is telling me." That's where part of that comes from. It's this is who I am. This is what I do really well. And now additional assets have come in. I'm getting referrals that never otherwise would have been a part of any of this. So, it's putting yourself out there, and taking those risks, and just staying on their radar, and being the best advocate you can for yourself and saying, "Look, here's what we did and here's how I contributed to that relationship."

Michael: So, are there tactics about how you actually try to stay on their radar?

Nikki: Sometimes, but again, I know that I'm not... I'm not going to be best friends with everyone. Again, I'm a woman, and a lot of these partnerships are with men. It would be weird if I asked a guy to go to lunch or grab drinks with me after work. That's not going to be well-received, and I understand why. And the other hard thing too is that the women that do exist in this space in those positions are not going to happy hour. They're grinding through lunch, the few of them that exist. And so I can't force other people to accommodate me or my personality. So, it's finding the other people that I click with that we get it, we vibe, we kind of operate in a similar way in like how we put the clients first. I think we talked a while back about the used car salesman of the industry. I don't ever want to give off that vibe. I don't like that vibe. So, finding those that we click.

Creating Unexpected Moments Of Celebration For Clients [1:08:11]

Michael: So, I'm struck by your point that there's very real challenges as a woman in a male-dominated industry, that, "Let's spend social time together over lunch or happy hour drinks after work," unfortunately, can have other not-intended connotations. So, I'm still curious. So, what were you doing to try to stay engaged, stay on their radar screen? Do you call them every month? Do you stop by periodically? Are you an emailer? What did you do to try to stay on their radar screen?

Nikki: When there's meaningful things that are going on in the world and I find something that I think would resonate with them, it's not a mass blast email. I'm sort of sending it out to a few people that I think would appreciate what I'm trying to do for them. Other things are like the... Have you heard of surprise and delight?

Michael: Yep.

Nikki: Yep. Creating those unexpected little things in celebration of...

Michael: What kind of surprise and delight things do you do?

Nikki: Well, last March being Women's History Month, that was a great opportunity to go drop off little gifts to the female advisors that I work with and some of the offices. Little stuff like that but again...

Michael: What gift did you give to celebrate Women's History Month?

Nikki: Some wine or wine opener sometimes. If I know that they don't drink, I'll do coffee instead. But I think the thing that I want to get to though is that it's not a shotgun approach. Over time it's a process of getting to what I...my methodology is that unique gifting and creative ways. And unique is not the same as personalized. So, whether I'm doing these unique things for those professionals in my network or I'm doing a unique thing for a client, that's what's a little different. Have you ever received a gift that you didn't ask for? It was never on your list or something you told somebody that you wanted at some point. But have you ever received a gift and it exactly brought you... It's so awesome and you're like, "Oh, my gosh, this person, they get me. This is an awesome gift." Have you ever had that happen to you?

Michael: Yeah, these days with young kids, it's usually something that I can do or play with the kids.

Nikki: Like a gift that you gave them?

Michael: No, no, that was given to me. That was given to me. So, someone knew I had young kids and sent a little drone that we could connect to the phone and send up in the air. And kids had a very fun weekend playing with the drone.

Nikki: See? Yeah. That feeling that you get when it's one of a kind like someone remembered something that was important to you and they thought of you enough to give you that unique gesture, right? Yes, you can get someone flowers on their birthday or a retirement gift that's personalized, a decanter or whiskey glass or whatever. Those are things that are more personalized and those are nice, right? There's nothing wrong with those. I love those, but the more unique you can get, to me, that's what I like to do and that's what I'm leaning into is the one of a kind things.

I have one example I just thought of where a client's retiring, right? Big milestone. It's a running joke of his Taco Bell obsession. And so the retirement gift basket was a couple of fun things, some snacks, a little workbook on what is my retirement going to look like, and then my favorite part of it was it was a sweatshirt I ordered from Etsy. And I don't know if you know anything about Taco Bell, but anyway the sweatshirt says, "Let's get Baja Blasted," and he was floored. Loved it. Those little things and having that impact of going a little bit further to create something that's one of a kind, nobody does that. I don't know if they don't care or they don't have the time, but I do care. That's what they walk away feeling.

Michael: I just struggle to remember the things. I don't know. My brain has trouble keeping track of all the details of all the things that people are into and enjoy for which I try to take good CRM notes with varying levels of success when it's actually time to sit down and come up with a thoughtful gift. How do you keep track of all the things to come up with these when the time comes?

Nikki: Yes, I want to keep track in my CRM, and I want to keep notes, but honestly, some of it is just...it just sticks out to me, and it's like a little thing in my brain that won't go away until I know I've done it. I had another client whose daughter is going to be a first-time grandmother, and she is a huge Tampa Bay Lightning fan. And it was just like a formula went off my head like, "Oh, okay, well, I have four or five months until she's a first-time grandmother." So, again, I ordered something for the baby and the grandmother that was Tampa Bay Lightning, a little card or whatever, and I hand wrapped it and then mailed it to her. It just clicks. When I see someone light up when they're telling me about something that they enjoy, it resonates and I remember that. I don't remember their birthday, I don't care. I mean, that's what the CRM is for. You can automate all that stuff, send out birthday cards, whatever, But it's like the thing that brings them joy should be easy I would think to find. Once you find it, ask more and lean into it. But everyone's so busy. It's go, go, go. Eternal news. It's all chaotic. What's the best thing going for you today? What are you most excited about this week? And I realize you could definitely ask that type of question, and it sounds cheesy. But it's not when you're genuinely curious about the answer, people will tell you. They'll light up. They'll be honest with you.

Michael: So, do you feel you're at capacity in what you're doing with 100 households that you're serving?

Nikki: Yes. Capacity, time-wise, for now, there's been a lot going on in the last few months. I still want to create this series of events that I'm doing for women in transition so that I can have more clients that I really, really, really want to work with and then have another person...a junior advisor now working for me on my team.

Michael: So, that's a new addition that you already added of a junior advisor or you want to add one in the future?

Nikki: I want to add one in the future.

Michael: Okay, with the goal of shifting some clients to them so that you can focus on the women in transition that you want to serve?

Nikki: Right.

Michael: So, is there a path to adding a junior advisor to the team? What does it take to make that happen?

Nikki: I'm at a a little bit of a pain point because I've got to hit certain goals of certain metrics of AUM and revenue for that to make sense financially.

Michael: So, the $150 million of AUM still, the numbers aren't there yet for where you want to be or need to be.

Nikki: Right.

Michael: Okay. So, where do you set the target or maybe where the firm set the target of where do you need to be where junior advisor makes sense?

Nikki: Yeah, part of it is is based on those numbers and another part of it though is the challenge of finding junior advisors, because I'm not the only one in need or about to be in need, so it's been harder and harder to keep and retain talent So, I like to think that personalization, the empathy, the things that we bring to the table, humans that AI can't do, that's what people need, right, they need to know that you care.

Michael: And so you're very much feeling the whole collective industry wide. We have a shortage of next generation talent.

Nikki: Yes.

What Surprised Nikki The Most On Her Career Path [1:19:40]

Michael: So, as you look on this journey, what surprised you the most about the path of building your career as an advisor?

Nikki: You know, I think it was how much the emotional component would be to...you hear that, yes, it's a relationship business and I didn't... I thought the hardest part would be the technical knowledge. I did not get into this industry to be a financial advisor. I actually studied mathematics and wanted to be an actuary. So, entered into the workforce preparing to study for those exams and got my foot in the door and working for an insurance company and I thought that would be a great way to lean into it and then I found myself in front of people and then enjoying what unfolded from there. So, yeah, definitely did not anticipate the emotions, how much those drive the decisions in the day to day planning and conversations with folks.

Michael: I would imagine... I'm not trying to totally stereotype the profession, but I would imagine coming from the actuary world, how emotional humans are in the financial planning context is a very stark contrast from actuarial math and law of large numbers. That's kind of by definition always works out that way, because that's how law of large numbers works.

Nikki: Mm-hmm, I love black and white. I love math. That's why it makes sense. You're right or you're wrong. And this relationship business, this industry, it's all the gray, right? Nothing is known or guaranteed, and that was a hard adjustment.

The Low Point On Nikki's Journey [1:21:52]

Michael: So, what was the low point for you on this journey?

Nikki: So, my lowest point was a few years ago, I spoke up against the founder of the firm, very large firm, and he had made some inappropriate comments about women during a panel discussion. And I knew that saying something was going to ruffle some feathers, but it was just one of those things where I couldn't stay silent. I'm very steadfast in my principles, and so I got up and I said what I needed to say in front of a lot of people. And I didn't know that ultimately that had just completely halted my career growth at the firm. But it did push me to pivot to something else.

So, I mentioned a little bit before that I needed to find something that embraced those values of inclusivity. So, that transition turned out to be a great turning point for me because it allowed me to build my book, my practice now in a way that better aligns with not only my convictions but it's also the way that best serves my clients. I can be who I am and be who... I can be me. And continuing to find the clients that appreciate the me for me and not expecting me to be something else, that's the beautiful spot and I want to do more of that.

Nikki's Advice For Her Younger Self And For Newer Advisors [1:23:56]

Michael: So, what do you know now you wish you could go back and tell you from 10 years ago, living in that world, not knowing that the thing on the other side where you are is where you ended up?

Nikki: I think what I would do is I would cultivate that network that I talked about before, not just the professional network for, "Oh, I need a CPA and attorneys and all that." So, I have resources for my clients but build my own network for my own career growth and reach out and find that mentor and find colleagues that I trust that was monumental for my own personal and professional growth. And that's what I would go back and do. Start building that network from day 1.

Michael: Any other advice you would give younger, newer women coming into the profession today and trying to get started?

Nikki: Yes, I would tell them and I would want them to know that they should own their perspective. Your own experiences, your differences, your insights, those are incredibly valuable and they will set you apart. Don't try to blend in. Own that. Embrace it. Also, do what I said I would do on day one and seek out mentorship and build a community of people that you trust so that you can grow. Be intentional about your brand. Like I said, the way you present yourself, not only how you look on the outside but your interactions, the content that you choose to share with clients, all of that matters. So, that's going to shape how others perceive your expertise. So, have consistent presence that reflects your values and your professional goals. So, just be intentional about your brand. Lean into resilience also. The industry is very challenging, very stressful. And your unique story and then your just continued determination is going to help you to navigate future challenges. And then lastly, would be to advocate for inclusivity, embrace and bring others into that space with you.

What Success Means To Nikki [1:27:00]

Michael: So, as we come to the end here, this is a podcast about success and just one of the themes that we've long found is that word success means very different things to different people. And so you're on this wonderful path in growing the client base and 100 clients, $150 million. The practice is in a wonderful place now. How do you define success for yourself at this point?

Nikki: For me, success is less about the numbers, the size of the book, the number of households. What I'm learning more and more is it's about the quality of the relationships both with my clients and with my network of professionals. So, I'm witnessing that client tell me who was so stressed after going through the financial planning or was so stressed about a tax situation or whatever, and the relief that I see come wash over their face, or the thank you that they tell me or they say later in an email, witnessing them leave with less stress and they're filled with hope and optimism and they feel empowered, that to me is success. I've done my job. I've now created a space where they can know that they can come back to me and I will help them through that decision-making process. That's success. That's the kind of legacy that I want to create.

Michael: I love it. I love it. Well, thank you so much, Nikki, for joining us on the "Financial Advisor Success" podcast.

Nikki: Thank you, Michael. I really appreciate it.

Michael: Thank you.