Optimizing A $160M AUM Solo Practice For Client Impact Over Scale: #FASuccess Ep 514 With Nick Ibello

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Resources Featured In This Episode:

• Nick Ibello: LinkedIn
• Client Service Meeting Planner – Download (PDF)
• Ibello Wealth Management Process Map – Download (PDF)
• Ibello Wealth Management
• Box
• Zocks
• AdvicePay
• Advisor Story

Full Transcript:

Michael: Welcome, Nick Ibello, to the "Financial Advisor Success" podcast.

Nick: Great to be here, Michael. Thank you.

Michael: I'm really excited to have you with us today and to get to talk about, I think, just what happens when you build a practice with a lot of intentionality about how many clients you can and want to serve. Because I find there's this interesting tension in the industry these days between a lot of technology firms and some of the executives in large platforms talking about how, with all the AI and the new tools, we can expand advisor capacity and we'll all work with 200-plus clients with 70% or 80% of their time focused on client meetings.

And then I have conversations with advisors who say, "Yeah, but I don't really want to do six client meetings a day, five days a week," which is what it would actually be if you're spending 70%, 80% of your time on client meetings, which I think has both started to raise this question of, how many clients or meetings do we actually want before it's just overwhelming and burnout, even if the tech makes it possible? And the related question, how many clients do we need to fulfill our own financial goals, income goals, relationship goals as an advisor?

And so I know that you, Nick, have been very intentional in what you're building with your advisory firm, and how many clients can you serve, need to serve, and want to serve to live the life that you want to live. And so I'm excited to talk to you about what this journey has been like for you and how you arrived yourself at an answer to this question, how many clients do I really want to serve?

Nick: Yes. Excited to talk about it.

What Ibello Wealth Management Looks Like Today [03:49]

Michael: So I think to kick us off, let's just talk a little bit about the advisory firm. Just paint us a picture of the advisory business as it exists today.

Nick: Sure. Well, the firm name is Ibello Wealth Management. We are IARs of LPL's corporate RIA. We are 100% virtual, and that was by design. I uniquely remember how, when COVID occurred, the seismic shift that happened with advisory practices and shifting from in-office meetings, suits, to Zoom. And what I observed during that was there wasn't a degradation of the service offering. If anything, there was actually this increase in convenience where the client knew that they didn't have to dress up, drive to the office. The advisor didn't have to make the commute into the office. So they had more time to do preparation work or work on the business.

And so when I was thinking about starting Ibello Wealth Management, I always knew it was going to be virtual. Because again, I never saw any degradation in the service offering or what clients have come to expect from meeting in an office or meeting over Zoom.

So we're based out of Howard County, Maryland, but I serve clients all across the country. Another thing that I intentionally did with the practice is I adopted the buzzword surge. So if you'd like, I'm happy to go into that. But I have two surge seasons, fall and spring, which are intentionally, again, devoted to fall and spring. Fall because you have open enrollment. We start to be able to run tax projections. And then in the spring, of course, that's tax time. You are working in coordination with your clients, their CPA. We want to make sure Roth IRA contributions are in before the April 15th deadline. So I found that having a surge seasons in the spring and fall was sensible.

Michael: So how many clients is it that the firm serves? What's your number at this point?

Nick: Yeah. So right now, we serve just about 100 households, and we have about $160 million, all in fee-based AUM.

Michael: Okay. And where is revenue at this point for the firm?

Nick: Sure. We're on pace this year for $1.35 [million].

Michael: Okay. And then what does team look like?

Nick: So the team is a lean, mean fighting machine. It is me and my colleague, Lydia, who is a senior paraplanner.

Michael: Okay. And that's it. It's the two of you.

Nick: It is the two of us.

Michael: A hundred clients. Is Lydia full-time with you?

Nick: Lydia is full-time with me. I'm super grateful to have her. She handles many things that I'm sure will be discussed.

Michael: And is virtual because everything is virtual, or is Lydia actually local to you?

Nick: Lydia is in Detroit, so she's virtual as well.

Michael: Okay. Detroit is very not close to Howard County, Maryland. Okay.

Nick: Not even remotely.

Michael: Not even remotely, no pun intended. Okay. Awesome. So now help us understand what typical clientele looks like. I hear 100 households, $160 million AUM. So I can do the rough math on assets. Are these younger savers? Are these retirees? Is there a particular specialization or focus? Help us understand more what this clientele looks like.

Nick: Sure. So earlier in my career, I just happened to start working with pre-retirees. I just fell into it. And I fell into loving it and becoming obsessed with all things that they face financially or otherwise. So the practice, as it sits today, my average client is 59 years old. I'm working with pre-retirees roughly within five to seven years of retirement to and through retirement.

And it's pretty easy with respect to answering, what do the clients want when they come to us? They're pretty much asking one simple question, whether they say it out loud or not, and it's, am I going to be okay? And that's that burning question. And that is typically who I serve.

Now, what has occurred because of what I like to call our high-touch offering is, invariably, once we're working with a household, then their kids come on board, the parents come on board. So embedded within the firm structure of the clients we serve, there are some 25, 35-year-olds, there are some 80 and 90-year-olds of my clients' parents. But again, the bread and butter of who we serve and what we do, it would be the pre-retiree market.

Michael: So when you capture situations like this, just when you say things like 100 client households, if I got the parents...if I got the retirees and then their kids came on board and then I end up with a 90-year-old mother-in-law, are these separate households in your 100-household count, or would you household them all into one?

Nick: It's a great question. One that I want to imagine I was very deliberate about. So the answer to that question depends on if the meetings are together. So most of my clients... I would say actually every single client who has referred their parents, my clients are the...one of the clients is the POA, and mom or dad is...the meeting happens all together. Mom and dad are in the meeting, my clients are in the meeting, and we just...it's one meeting, and we review each of their situations.

As a consequence, I household them when their meetings are the same. And typically, it's the same thing with the younger kids. They might still be in the nest. Mom and dad are typically in that meeting as well. So that 100 households, that was long-winded. Those 100 households incorporates the moving up or moving down generation based on if the meetings are all held together.

Michael: Okay. But you're trying to actually keep them efficient. You don't have a lot of one-off meetings for "other" members of the household because you're bringing them together when you do what you do, which I get it. We're looking at your accounts and your mom's account that you're the POA on. It fits like, "Let's just look at all of it together."

Nick: Well, uniquely, it was almost not even a deliberate decision by me. It was a deliberate decision by me to household them, but only when the client said, "Hey, is it okay if we have our meetings together with mom?" So it was typically the client that said, "Hey, can we do these meetings together?" And which point I said, "Oh, well, of course you can." And now they're all one household.

Nick's Planning-First Approach To Working With New Clients [11:13]

Michael: Okay. So now talk to us a little bit more about what the service model looks like, right? What do you do, Nick, for 100 clients throughout the year or year to year? It sounds like much of this is anchored around two meetings a year for surge. So maybe we can start there, but I don't know if or what else wraps into what does it mean to be an ongoing client of Ibello Wealth?

Nick: Sure. So again, the fancy buzzword of comprehensive. So every single client gets integrated financial planning and investment management. It's something that I am unwavering on. The reality is, I heard this analogy a long time ago. It's like, if you go to a travel agent and the travel agent...you sit down, and before you've even stated your goals, the travel agent says, "You know what, let's go by boat." And it's like, "Well, wait a minute." I haven't really told you what we're trying to accomplish here. The boat is the medium, right?

So similar with investments, the investments is the medium to get you where you want to go. So I am deliberate about doing deep planning work with every client that I serve, even if it's Mom, who's 80, right? I want to look at her legal documents, her tax returns, her bank account statements. So every single client gets integrated financial planning and investment management. So that's just table stakes at the firm.

Michael: And do you charge separately for that, or is there just one bundled fee for everything?

Nick: Perfect question. There is a separate fee at the beginning of the relationship. When I am wrapping my arms around a new client's entire financial life, cash flow, banking, I could have an hour of just me saying all the things. I charge a one-time upfront flat fee to do an initial plan. After that planning engagement has concluded, part of their plan presentation is a presentation with respect to my pivots and recommendations for transferring money over to IWM, Ibello Wealth Management.

And at that point, the relationship then transfers into an ongoing AUM basis, whereby, on an ongoing basis, they are getting comprehensive planning integrated with investment management, all bundled under the simple, elegant AUM wrapper. And there's a lot of talk about what fee structure is best for me and the clients that I serve and how I deliver my service offering to them. I landed on the AUM fee-based model. And so that probably answers your question there.

Michael: So where do you set initial planning fee?

Nick: The first planning fee that I ever charged in 2015 was $650. And by the way, for the audience, I was terrified to charge that. Over the years, you refine your service offering and build up your intellectual capital and optimize your processes, and technology, and deliverables. And I think the minimum planning fee that I've charged in the last 2 years is $4,750, and I've charged fees as high as $10 grand.

Michael: What determines the difference, or where you're going to place it?

Nick: Yeah, took the words out of my mouth. What determines that is the complexity of the client situation. Are they in a blended family? Do they have complicated stock options? Do they have real estate in different states? Are their legal documents done?

So when I am meeting a new client, I have that new client, prior to them even hiring me, sending me documents. And I know that that's a scary thing for some advisors because you don't want to lose the sale. I think I've just, in a way, graduated from that mindset. I have this mindset that if they're coming to me and they're looking for help, and I want to align a proper fee schedule and service offering to them, I need to lift the hood up. So what determines the fee is the complexity of their situation, which is determined by typically two meetings with them prior to them hiring me, and a formalized review of their goals and their situation.

Michael: So take me through that process a little bit more then. What are the two meetings? What do you do? What do you cover in each?

Nick: Yeah, sure. So I'll say meeting one would be the introductory call. We'll call that meeting number one. In my brain, we'll call that, is there a mutual fit? And there's a couple things that I am trying to figure out. Are they kind? Can I feel that they're receptive to advice? Are their goals realistic? And are the problems that I see that they have that they haven't even stated, in addition to what they're trying to achieve, something that I can deliver above value on? And then there's the little baby one, are they qualified? Do they have an investment minimum? And my investment minimum isn't high. Well, that's...

Michael: I guess relative terms. Where do you draw that line?

Nick: I'm at a million.

Michael: Okay. This minimum is at a million.

Nick: Yes. So in that initial call, I'm identifying those boxes, right? And if those boxes get checked, they're receptive to advice, they're kind, their goals are realistic. The problems that I see that they have, they haven't even stated, plus what they've stated, is that something I can deliver above value on? And are they qualified?

If the answer is yes, then I'll say, "Mr. or Mrs. Smith, this is exactly the type of work that I do. I've heard enough to know I can be of great value. I'd love to get another meeting on the books so we can really start to dive in into your situation. This is no obligation. We're going to meet for an hour. I'm going to have you send me some homework items. I'm going to review them. I'm going to come to that meeting well prepared to discuss what I'm seeing in your situation. I'm going to ask you some more questions about your situation to ensure I have my arms wrapped around what you're trying to accomplish. At the end of that meeting, I will quote a formalized fee for you to engage us, and I'll walk you through what it's like to be a client of the firm."

And then I have that. Then they send us their documents. I review their documents. I create an agenda for that meeting. I walk the client through the agenda, and at the end of that meeting, they decide, "Hey, do we want to move forward?"

How Nick Got The ‘Reps' In To Discover His Value And Refine His Communication Style [18:14]

Michael: So it feels like that's fairly scripted to you in how you navigate that conversation, which I mean very positively. That felt like a lot of very intentional words and framing of how you position that, right? "We're going to walk you through what it's like to be a client, and because I want to make sure I have my arms wrapped around your situation."

Nick: I love that you caught that.

Michael: So where did that come from for you? Did you evolve that, or did you go through a training somewhere to come to that?

Nick: I absolutely love that question. So my response to that would be repetitions. And those repetitions came from early in my career having so much volume of interactions with prospective clients that it quite literally became a reflex of communication with respect to how I wanted to deliver what I'm trying to say. So I love that...and again, I just had so much exposure of throwing things up against the wall and seeing what sticked and being in front of thousands of prospective clients that I just created this little groove of my script, if you will.

Michael: Okay. Is this because you were in a role of doing a lot of cold calling, cold knocking, just high-volume prospecting early in your career that you had the opportunity "to get your reps in?"

Nick: Yeah. I love that. It didn't feel like opportunity at the time.

Michael: I know. I put that in air quotes. They're hard to see on the podcast.

Nick: I know you did. I know you did. The answer to your question is yes. I came into the industry with no contacts. I started in 2014 with zero assets under management. I didn't even know how to spell IRA. So I came in really green. I didn't know anything about marketing, but I am wired to be a workhorse. You know what? I'll have to tell this story because I think it's illuminative of my situation.

At one of my roles, I will never forget the senior partner when I originally started. I had a small base salary, and my role was to hunt, right? My role was to hunt. And he slid across a box of leads, and the box was up to my knees. It was a big box of leads.

Michael: Were these the "Glengarry Glen Ross" leads or different leads?

Nick: Yes. So I'm going to explain. There were thousands of individual pieces of paper in there. And what this box was was a collection of individuals that the senior advisor, back in his grinding days, collected that either said no or they never gave an answer. And I guess he never got rid of them. And when I tell you these were cold mail...

Michael: They gave us contact information once in their life and we still have it, so I guess that's legit.

Nick: And so again, I think this perfectly is illustrative of my reps. And I'm just a tenacious dude. I went into my office, and for one calendar year, I called every lead in this box. I had late nights, long weekends, hang-ups, yelled at, right? But again, I won't go on. The bottom line is, yeah, and that was just the beginning, right? Fun fact for those wondering, two clients resulted.

Michael: I was going to say, so did any of them say yes? I got two clients.

Nick: Wait, but this is actually... I do have to share this. I got two clients out of this, but this is a really valuable lesson on tenacity, right? There might have been 2,000 pieces of paper in there, and it might have taken me one year, and I might have gotten 2 clients, but one of the clients that I got ended up being one of my largest clients, but here's the kicker, the largest referral source that I've ever had in my career.

And I think that sharing that, just like...it's one of those things. You know that little cartoon of the guy digging underneath the ground with a pickaxe looking for gold, and then he's just about to stop? All he needed was one pickaxe away. That's what I envisioned. I hit it out of that 2,000 leads, let's call it, and it ended up being an integral part in the momentum of the infancy of my career.

Michael: Oh, man. So you are someone who very much takes just the iterative, get the reputations in, let's have a bit of reflection on how we did that. “Oh, I'm going to try the wording this way next time. Oh, it seems like their expectations were off. I'm going to point out that the purpose of this meeting is specifically to get to know you a little bit better. Oh, I'm going to remind them they'll have a little bit of homework because when I tell them that, they're a little more likely to do their homework.” So just...

Nick: Yeah, it's like this. I think you nailed it. There's this combination of appropriate expectation setting with this gentleness. One of the things that I learned early is that we're in a low-trust industry with clients. I don't even like to tell clients.

Michael: There's nothing like 1,998 nos to remind you of that.

Nick: Right. And so I try to just...how you were just saying, you remind them that they're going to have some space to make the decision. I try to release the pressure valve early, immediately. People talk about sex and politics more than they do finances. So when they are talking to you for the first time... First of all, there was a lot of conversation between two spouses before they picked up the phone and decided to call you. They're coming into this with emotions and money habits, and they might be incongruent on certain things, and they're calling a stranger, and no one talks about finances.

So the combination of that properly setting expectations of what this process is going to look and feel like with also integrating this gentleness with them to allow them to release the pressure valve of their stress or emotions that, "Hey, we're just going to have a conversation. We're going to say, 'Hey, should we go this way?' All right. Well, that feels good. Let's try this." And so yeah, again, it's all iterated over the years, all from the box, if you will.

Michael: Yeah. So as now you go through this meeting process, so how long is first call for you to go through this determining mutual fit threshold?

Nick: Sure. I deliberately keep it to less than 20 minutes, and I set that expectations. I actually tell prospective clients, I say, "Hey, this is just a get to know each..." I actually call it a get-to-know-each-other conversation. "I just want to learn a little bit more about what's on your mind and why I'm having this opportunity to have a conversation with you, and I want to see if I can be helpful." And if we think there's some synergy there, then we'll take the next step of having a more diligent meeting.

Michael: So I'm assuming in the same iterative manner, the criteria has evolved, right? Are they kind? Are they receptive? Realistic goals, asset minimums. How have these...? A million-dollar minimum. So how have these evolved for you over the years? So I'm presuming it wasn't a million-dollar minimum with the cold calling days.

Nick: Well, Michael, I think you're going to actually smile at this, right? Because if they had a pulse, they would be accepted by myself. Because again, my mission was repetitions and get in front of people and be helpful and learn, and I needed volume to do that. I knew the intellectual capital and experience would come in time. But yeah, it evolved from, are you willing to have a conversation with me about your financial affairs? Right? With no asset minimum, no expectation.

Frankly, I'm almost embarrassed to say this. I didn't even care if they were unkind. I had, at the beginning of my career, several very unkind relationships that I took in the chin for the benefit of the experience of learning if I could navigate it and how I would do that.

Michael: So when did the additional criteria kick in for you? When did that start being a filter?

Nick: It started being a filter as momentum was achieved with respect to my perception of my confidence in being able to deliver investment management and financial planning counsel to clients in combination with having a base of recurring revenue, i.e., income.

I think the combination of those two things started lifting me, and then I'm like, "Oh, well, they were like really mean." Like, "Oh, well, they have a million dollars," right? So it became this...there used to be a... I remember that there was this client that had...it was over a million, which was obviously really, really a really good client for me at a young age. They were unsavory, very unsavory. And the way the one spouse talked to the other spouse made me uncomfortable.

And I went through a morality exercise quite literally. I was like, "I don't like how he talks to her. I don't really like what he's saying to me, but man, I have these sales quotas, and it would be really nice to onboard this." And so it became very...as I got more confident and revenue under my belt, the scale started sliding into the criteria. I don't think that I can identify an exact point.

Michael: I was going to say, do you have a sense like...? Are we two years in? Are we five years in? Are we ten years in?

Nick: Oh, okay. So that's a good question. When I started putting criteria on it, I think it was five full years in.

Michael: Okay.

Nick: Yeah. I think that that was a fine question and something that I can hang my hat on. I think when I commit... I started... I think years three and four, I entertained the idea. But I don't think that I actually executed on it. But I think year five is when the criteria started being executed on.

Michael: And do you recall where would assets and revenue have been?

Nick: I believe it was right around $50 million. I think that I'm anchoring to that. My brain is going to that number.

Michael: Yeah. It's just fine for a lot of advisors. There's a point where the brain is in scarcity mode. And then when you're in scarcity mode, you really put up a lot of filters. The filter is like, "Does it make my assets and revenue go up because I need to survive?"

Nick: Exactly.

Michael: And then you get to some point where it's not survival mode anymore. And frankly, some of us, many of us just keep powering along anyways. But at least sometimes we can just pause and look around and say, "I'm actually not sure I'm in that much scarcity anymore. Maybe I'm just going to not work with that really unpleasant person. It'll be okay."

Nick: Yeah. And it requires some introspection. It requires quite literally you to take your foot off the gas for a moment and reflect on that. Are you there? Because if reflection yields, I think I'm there. There's a liberation in that.

Finding A Document Storage Tool That He Loves [30:22]

Michael: Yeah. So first meeting, we're going through this fit with the criteria that evolved as we got to the point where there's enough recurring revenue that I feel like there is a little bit of room to say no to someone who is not kind, not receptive to advice, unrealistic goals, or just all the things that you can technically pay me and I can give you advice. But this probably isn't going to be a very pleasant relationship. So now help me understand more what happens between the first and the second meeting, and then what are you actually doing or delivering in the second meeting?

Nick: I love it. Sure. So right, we have that get to know each other chat. If we agree that there's a fit, I then have a templated-ish. I have a scaffolding of an email that I send that effectively says, "It was wonderful getting acquainted with you. We booked our next meeting for X amount. Here's the X date. Here's the Zoom link. In preparation for our time together, I wanted to just let you know the structure of that meeting."

And I think that this is important for the audience. Again, you might have made them feel good in that initial meeting, but they know that they haven't hired you yet, and it's still a little nerve-wracking for them to expose their financial underbelly. And so in that meeting, I say, "Here's what that meeting is going to be like. We're going to talk about blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." And then I say, "By the way, here are some of the noteworthy points from today's call. I know that you said, little Jimmy, it's really important for you to start saving for his college education. I know that you really want...work is corroding your psychology right now, and you want to know if you can get..."

And so I list out what I heard from them. And then I say something along the lines of, "So that I can be best prepared for that meeting, I'd like to review some details of your situation." And then I just bullet-point out, "I'd like to see a recent tax return, recent pay stub, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah," listed out. And then I have... So one piece of technology that I absolutely...I want to scream it from a mountaintop, that's how much I love it, is MyBox, MyBox.

Michael: Okay, what is MyBox?

Nick: Yeah, MyBox is a enterprise security document upload tool. It's a document vault. Yeah, it is effectively the most...it is the nucleus of my firm. And in MyBox, you can add a link to your email signature. Click here to upload your document securely to MyBox. And they just click the link, and here's the beautiful thing. They don't need a secure bit, there's no password, there's no username. It opens up a browser window, and they just drag and drop the files in, and then I am real-time alerted, "Hey, Jane Smith just uploaded these documents." It is beautiful, seamless, easy. There's so much more to it.

Michael: So I guess they can't necessarily retrieve from it, because they need a separate login for, but they can drop boxes into it.

Nick: They can drop it in. Now, we can set up a retrieval when a client...so I had one client that they're like, "Nick, you are my financial life. As such, if I die, everything that we've ever done, I'd love to be able to have access to." So there is a way you can make the retrieval on both ends. So that specific client asked me to set up a MyBox folder for them. If they die, the kids go into MyBox, they see bank statements, legal documents, tax returns, this, that, and the other thing. So it can be a bilateral thing. For most clients, it's unilateral, but advisors can go whatever direction fits their firm and their clients with it.

And I'm sure we'll get into technology. I got to explain it right now because it's just too cool to not say. They have this thing in MyBox called Box AI. So you can create...so for every client household that I have, I have a templated document repository, if you will. So I have banking, employee benefits, estate planning documents, healthcare, insurance, investments, meeting documents, mortgage, pay stubs, pension, Social Security. So I have these named document repositories.

So in MyBox, you can go in there, and there's this thing called Box AI, and you can just speak to it. Now, there's a lot of technology that's already starting to do...that's already...Jump, Zocks, Wealthbox AI. But effectively, I can just go into MyBox and be like, "Hey, what were the...? Just quickly tell me, what were the main hits from the last meeting? Hey, three years ago, we talked about Jane's daughter that was special needs. Can you look in the meetings folder and scrub out what was going on in that situation?" There are so many cool things in it.

Nick's Approach To Client Notetaking Using AI Tools [35:08]

Michael: So you've got a meeting that goes out, and I guess just curious, as you're putting all the here's what we talked about and covered things, are you also using AI notetaker?

Nick: So we have historically used Jump, because Jump was the only approved vendor on LPL. We have recently switched.

Michael: What did you switch to and why?

Nick: Sure. We have switched to Zocks. And we love Zocks.

Michael: So why the change? What wasn't clicking for you on Jump, or what was the alluring feature of Zocks that pulled you across?

Nick: All of these guys are getting this...all of this technology, they're all so close to one another. And they're going to... If Zocks jump frogs, if Zocks... They're all leapfrogging each other, but the...you know what I mean?

Michael: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Nick: We were happy with Jump. However, we did a demo of Zocks and we just...so one thing that I think most of the audience should know is that Jump records you. And that's...I didn't love that, every single meeting being fully recorded, my actual body, right? Every meeting is recorded. So one of the things I loved about Zocks is it's not recorded. So that was like, "Oh, wow. If Zocks and Jump are the exact same service offering, I'm going to choose Zocks because it's not..."

Michael: Okay. So it's what? It's live transcribing. It's live note-taking.

Nick: Exactly. Exactly.

Michael: But it doesn't actually keep a recorded repository.

Nick: Exactly, yes. Further, we observed that the follow-up emails that Zocks drafted up were uniquely better than Jump's. That was our experience. This is not Nick Ibello saying Zocks is better.

Michael: Sure, different folks will either train different ways or just like some email styles better than others. But for you at least, the Zocks emails felt better fit for you, or I guess...

Nick: It did.

Michael: ...we all tend to modify them. But it required fewer modifications and was more naturally to your style.

Nick: Yep. And the integrations are great. It integrates with MyBox. It integrates with Outlook. It integrates with Zoom. It integrates with Wealthbox.

Giving Prospects Three Options At The End Of The Second Meeting [37:23]

Michael: So they get the email of what comes next. Zocks helps prepare and fill in the what we talked about. You've got some scaffolding of what you cover. They get a link to the Box Vault so they can quickly upload files of all the things.

Nick: And I tell the client I deliberately book the meeting two weeks in advance. So when we close out that get-to-know-each-other conversation, I say, "Let's look out the calendar two weeks. I'm going to..."

Michael: Will you literally do that in the meeting? Like, "We're going to schedule right now. Let's pull out our calendars."

Nick: I will. And I think what's really important, so I don't forget to say this, when I do surge meetings, this is a beautiful thing. At the end of every...so right now I'm in my surge season. At the end of every client meeting, every single client meeting, at the end of it, the last thing we do is collectively we pull up our calendars and book the meeting six months in advance. So when I finish my fall surge season, I have 100 meetings booked already for the spring, which creates...

Michael: Just like my dentist. My dentist is fantastic at this.

Nick: Right. And what that does for you as the advisor, you know when the meetings are, who you're meeting with, and now you just have this beautiful time to prepare, analyze, do deep work, not have to worry about comparing calendars, yada, yada, yada.

Michael: I was going to say, so there's no Calendly link and such back and forth because you're just pulling up a calendar and saying, "Here are some slots we've got. Which one works for you?" And they say one, and we say, "Great," and we put it on the calendar.

Nick: And we do it right there. And you know what? Invariably, six weeks in advance, when we start preparing for these meetings and reaching out to clients, invariably they're like, "Oh, Nick, something came up." Fine. Easy-peasy. We just...the fact that it was already on the books, it's so easy to just pivot. Now, one of the things you said about Calendly, I uniquely... I guess I believe I'm on my own island with this. I'll admit that. I've never used OnceHub or Calendly. I don't know. It's never been something that has fancied me.

Michael: Well, I guess if every meeting gets scheduled at the end of every prior meeting, you just don't really need other scheduling if you stole this.

Nick: And I guess there it is, right? We're being so inundated as advisors with all the various technology offerings and every facet of our work. So you're right. I didn't have a need for it. So that meeting, that two-week meeting gets scheduled, and I tell the client... I set expectations. I'm like, "It would be great if you could get these documents back to me at least three days prior to the meeting where I'm going to review everything. So I don't want to go too down a path. I'll let you guide me where you want to go from here."

Michael: That was going to be part of my question, though. How much analysis are you doing and bringing in, particularly if you've only got a two-week window and they have to send information, then you need time to review it. So what do you build before the second meeting? What do you actually cover in the second meeting?

Nick: Yeah. So this is where...I'm a little bit unique in that even if that client... And I'm not exaggerating, and Lydia can vouch for this. Even if that client sent it one hour before the meeting, I would be all hands on deck to review it, every detail, as I possibly could. So whenever they send it back...now I should probably say this. I onboard two relationships a year, and they are during non-surge season. So I set that expectation. So one of the reasons, you're like, "Well, Nick, what if you had a meeting an hour before?" I wouldn't.

Michael: You wouldn't.

Nick: Right. So I have this beautiful liberation to not feel stressed about when they're going to send the documents, to not feel pressured about this possible new relationship conflicting or taking me away from my current relationships. So I will only onboard the new relationship pre- or post-surge season. So now what I do in the analysis, I'm just... I'm doctor looking at an X-ray. I'm looking at their pay stub, their tax return. I'm digesting my own follow-up email that I sent them. What are their goals? I'm remembering their personality, their unstated needs.

What am I actually doing in that meeting? I have a Word document agenda about their situation. "Hey, this is why we're here today. This is the..." Again, refresh them on the process of the meeting, the stated reasons you said you're here. "Here are my observations about how we can be helpful and some things that I noticed on your tax return, your investment statements, your pension statement," yada, yada, yada.

And so my analysis is... I do put a lot of work into it. Now, I do that because I am 100% referral-based. So 99.99% of clients that are coming to me have historically moved forward. So I give it my all. I do a mini planning session, right, in preparation for that meeting. And then I just tell them what I see, how I can be helpful, what the process looks like, what it will cost. And that meeting is typically 45 minutes long. And then at the end of the meeting, they say, "Nick, yes, we'd like to move forward," or "No, we don't."

Michael: How do you frame up the ask at the end of the meeting? What does that closing look like?

Nick: I love it. Well, if there's anything you know about me, it's almost like you're about to hear something scripted. So I say...

Michael: I know. I'm very excited about this, to be clear.

Nick: Right. So I say something along the lines of, "Well, at this point, Jane and Jack, we've covered everything that I wanted to make sure that we covered in our agenda today. Is there anything we didn't review that you wanted to make sure we reviewed?" And typically, they will say no.

And then I will also say, "Is there anything I didn't ask you about your financial situation that you think is meaningful or noteworthy for me to jot down?" And sometimes that gets some extra things. And then after they finish, I said, "Perfect. That covers everything I wanted to review in today's meeting." And then I'm really light and airy, and I'm smiling. And I'll say, "At this point, we have three choices."

You can say, "At this point, we have three choices with how we proceed." You can say, "Nick, I really appreciate this meeting. This was wonderful. It's not a fit." You can say, "Nick, we're ready to move forward." Or you can say, "You know what, Nick, this was a great meeting. We would just like some time to think about it, and we'll let you know in a week."

So I release the pressure valve. I'm like, "This is where we make a decision. And by the way, Mr. and Mrs. Client, that decision can be, ‘You know what, Nick, we really appreciate today. We want to talk about it. We'll get back to you by Friday'." So I take that awkwardness out. I'm smiling. I'm using my hands. But invariably, they look at each other. If it's spouses, they'll look at each other, and they'll smile, and they'll say, "This is what we're looking for."

Michael: Okay. And I guess I am noting, as you frame that up, there's three choices, not two. It's not, "You don't think this is a fit," or "Take your time and let us know. It's not, "You don't think this is a fit," or "Let's move to signature." You're giving them a no, a not now, or, "Yeah, if you're just ready to go, we can get going."

Nick: Yeah, and you know what's funny? That's exactly correct how you just summarized that. I used to not do that. I used to not say, "You can let me know now." I used to have... I don't know. I like to think I'm a nice guy, and I was trying to outnice myself or whatever, and I would be scared. I would be like, you know what? So I used to say, "At this point in time, it's the end of the meeting." I would actually say, Michael, I would say, "I want you guys to go back home, think about today's conversation, and let me know." And I used to say that. But I don't know if it was a scaredness, an imposter syndrome. I don't know what it was. But now I'm just like, "If you guys know you're ready to rock, let's do this thing."

Michael: So has that changed the meetings and outcomes?

Nick: Unequivocally. Yeah, because in 99% of meetings, they're ready to move forward. And they quite literally...most of the time, it's spouses. Sometimes it's individuals. But they'll just smile at each other and say, "We're ready, Nick. This is exactly why we're here."

What Nick's New Client Onboarding Process Looks Like [45:42]

Michael: So you said part of this as well is you do explain to them what comes next and what the process looks like. So can you help us understand now what does the process look like? How does it flow from here if they're becoming a client?

Nick: I love it. And if I may, I think that's one of the reasons why the hit rate at the end is yes, because there's...they know if they're going to hire you at that point. And sometimes, I've learned, they're just unclear on the deliverable. They're unclear on the process of what will follow. They're unclear on what communication we'll like. They're unclear on the fee schedule.

And if they are just unclear on one of those things, they're going to want to think about it. And if they think about it, it might raise doubt. It might raise other questions. So I am just so purposeful about ensuring that I uncover every rock with respect to what are these questions that, if I was in their shoes, that I'm going to be thinking about? So what is the process? So after they say yes, I say, "Wonderful. In the next 48 hours, you're going to get an email titled 'Next Steps with Ibello Wealth Management.'" And I quite literally bullet-point out, oh, and at the end of that meeting, we book our next meeting. Just right then and there.

Michael: Absolutely. I would expect nothing less.

Nick: We book our next meeting. So it's, hey, here's our next meeting. I need more documents from them, right? Because I needed enough to understand their situation, see if I could be helpful, quantify the service offering that I was going to deliver to them. But then I need much more things from them, which is all articulated, bullet-pointed out in the follow-up email. I think we use AdvicePay. Yes, we use AdvicePay. In that follow-up email, it's "Here's our next meeting. Here's how we pay. Here are the things that I need from you. Here's the deadline to get us those things."

And then imagine this. I tell them, "As a friendly reminder, here's what the next meeting looks and feels like. And effectively, it's your CFP. It's your discovery meeting," right? So it's my... I have a whole thing that I go through with respect to that discovery meeting that we can certainly go into today. But effectively, they get that email. The meeting is scheduled. They send me all their documents. I review.

Now, I'm not doing their planning yet. I'm just reviewing, and I'm thinking about questions. And in that discovery meeting, my mission is to make sure that I have a clear understanding of their goals, their fears, their cash flow, their banking, when they want to retire, yada, yada, yada, all of these things. And the discovery meeting, it's really not long. It's 30 to 45 minutes, and it's me getting clarification on things and extracting more insight from them such that I can then take...and it typically takes me two to four weeks to then do their plan.

At the end of the discovery meeting, I then schedule the plan presentation, which is at which point there is the deliverable of a Word document, a MoneyGuide Pro analysis, tax return analysis, legal document analysis. But the Word document that I create for their financial plan breaks down every facet of their life, cash flow, banking, long-term...everything that you could imagine.

Michael: So why a Word document when you've got MoneyGuide and other tools that build various parts of this?

Nick: It's a great question. And I think that goes to me. I am old-school. So when a...even though I'm 37, I'm old-school. When a client uploads everything, I print their tax return. I print that. I got this industrial shredder thing. I print all their documents, and quite literally, I put it on a bed, and I organize it like a puzzle piece. I'm looking at all of the pieces of their puzzle.

I got a quantifiable goals, fears, things they didn't say that I haven't brought up to them that I need to get out. And so this Word document that I've created has iterated over the past 15 years, but it's their scaffolding in there that addresses every facet of their life, and I just quite literally type out. Is that the most efficient thing? Probably not, given today's technology.

Michael: Well, you're on your own with Lydia with $1.35 million of revenue. Seems like it's going okay.

Nick: It allows me...so one of the big things for me is that I'm not optimizing for scale. I am optimizing for impact. And there's something about laying their financial life on my bed and reviewing it and typing out notes and letting the notes...right? I do the plan over two weeks, and I go to sleep. And I'm only working on their plan, and thoughts come in. I'm like, "Oh, will Roth conversions make sense for them?" And then I'm like, "Well, they said they wanted to leave a legacy, but they really want..."

So there's all of these things that, by typing out their notes and I have it categorized, cash flow, retirement, pension analysis, Social Security, it just...it's almost like it types it into my brain and allows me to really percolate on their situation and do deep work and deep analysis. And yes, I'm sure that the technology could spit that out for me.

Michael: But then your brain loses the processing time of really getting intimate to the recommendations.

Nick: And I think that's what it is for me. I reflect on the industry as a whole, and there are some advisors that handle 200, 300, 400 households. And at that scale, their job becomes more about asset gathering, running meetings, keeping the machine moving. And my priority is just...it's depth over activity. And I think that this approach really doesn't scale. It might in the future…

Michael: Again, I don't know. It doesn't scale, and you have 2x the revenue productivity of the average advisor. So to me, it's one of the fascinating things about the industry as a whole, right? As you said, you're not optimizing for scale. You're optimizing for impact, and along the way, you have better revenue productivity than the overwhelming majority of advisors with one team member in support, which we can all do rough margins. This maths very well. This is strong revenue productivity and just a healthy, very profitable practice.

Nick: It's also so much fun. I can't even wait to get up in the morning to do it because there have been previous roles that I've had where it was about keeping the engine moving, where you didn't have time for that deep work, those quiet hours in between where you get to review a tax return closely, map out a retirement income plan, work through a Roth conversion analysis, and it's... Clients see that. Like, "Oh, I didn't think about that."

Nick's Transition From Prioritizing Activity To Prioritizing Depth [52:51]

Michael: So I'm fascinated by your comments of...things like I'm optimizing for scale, not for impact, depth over activity, because just...my impression of how you've described the journey, you were the activity guy for a decade.

Nick: What an awesome question to help appreciate, to tell you the answer to that. Essentially, the line is, "I'm willing to work a few years like most won't so that I might live a life that most cannot."

And so the depth over activity, the optimizing scale over impact was my end game forever. But I knew to achieve that goal, it was going to require a level of reps, persistence, tenacity, trauma, hardships, resilience, and adaptation. Such was my first decade. I read enough about the industry to know that if you wanted to be a producing advisor, that one day could build the practice of your dreams and have autonomy, that you had to be the activity guy. So effectively, I had to be the activity guy to get to the level where I could be what I am now. Was that explained clearly?

Michael: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. To me, very much it was a means to an end. It wasn't for the sake of. You weren't driven by the activity for the activity. You were driven by the activity for the end state goal of when I do this, I can get to the point where I can focus on impact, I can focus on depth over activity, I can have the autonomy to do the practice I want to run.

Nick: Precisely. And if I may, I always viewed growth as a tool and not the mission. And I think that sometimes that gets lost in any industry, but specifically our fast-moving asset-gathering world. Scaling might make the business bigger, but it also might simultaneously make my life worse. You know what I mean? So I always knew growth would come with a cost, but I knew I needed to get the reps in the activity level where I had the basic clients where I could eventually reach my enough, right? And so anyway, I digress on that, but that is how I went from the activity man to the depth over activity.

Nick's Approach To Implementing A “Surge” Meeting Schedule [55:48]

Michael: So now help us understand what surge looks like in your world.

Nick: Yeah, I love it.

Michael: Yeah, just walk us through a surge cycle, how you do it, how many meetings a week or a day, how long does it take? What do you do in each meeting? Just the whole process.

Nick: Outstanding. Let's have some fun with it. So surge is nebulous, right? Because surge means different things to different people, and different advisors approach and structure it differently. So for me, I know this might sound crazy, but it's quite simple, so with roughly 100 clients. So surges in fall and spring. So I typically do August 15th to November 1st, and I'll do February 15th to April 1st.

Michael: Okay, so that's what? That's about six weeks.

Nick: Yeah, so here's what it is. So yeah, I do two meetings a day, so ten meetings a week for ten weeks. So surge season is ten weeks for each one. So 20 weeks.

And everything in that, my surge is deliberate. Well, Nick, why only two meetings a day? Because I don't want surge to be this stressful…there are some people that do a surge season, and they'll do five meetings in a day.

Michael: Well, that's what I was wondering. There are folks out there where... It might also be 10 meetings a week, but it's 10 meetings a week because it's 3 or 4 meetings a day, or it's 15 meetings a week because they do 5 a day on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, prep Monday, wrap Friday, and they get through 100 clients in 6 weeks instead of 10.

Nick: Yeah. So for me, everything was structured, again, depth over activity, right? So with 2 meetings a day, each one of my meetings are typically about 90 minutes. That leaves plenty in the day for the following: a relaxed follow-up email. Lydia and I...The meeting ends. Lydia and I, we go in, we look at Zocks, we talk together about how the meeting went, we develop the follow-up email together, but it's light, it's structured, there's no pressure of timing. So it allows us to take our time and develop this follow-up email.

And after every meeting, a client gets a follow-up email. And the follow-up email discusses the noteworthy points that we discussed. Hey, we had a deep conversation about Social Security claiming and why we believe that claiming at 67 instead of 62, yada, yada, yada. So noteworthy points. Then we have action items, and then it's broken down to Ibello Wealth Management and then the client.

So we have this really good follow-up email that gives us a great place for us. So we're in fall now. So when we're preparing for our spring meeting, the combination of all the qualitative stuff that Zocks captured, in combination with what were the big things we talked about and the action items, we're already halfway prepared for our spring meeting because of the, I'm going to use the word density of the follow-up emails.

And clients really appreciate that. They provided that feedback that it keeps them on track. It's easy. They keep all of our follow-up emails in a folder over the years. And then, finally, the reason for only two is we then update our CRM systems. What if they moved? What if their retirement date shifted? What if they had another grandkid? So by having two meetings a day, it's light, it's fun. It allows us plenty of time to update our CRM systems and get the follow-up email out there.

Michael: Okay. But I'm also noting there's never a break. You don't have a prep day, follow-up day that some folks do. You just rather keep the steady pace. Two a day, I got enough time to literally just do the prep and the follow-up the day before the day of the meeting. So it's not a big deal.

Nick: So the reason I have two in a day is to allow enough space for the CRM updates and the follow-up email. And for me, I give my all in every meeting. There was a phrase I learned a long time ago called compassion fatigue, which is very real. I am hyper...I'm looking at their eyeballs, their hands, how the spouses are looking at each other, their body language, the things that might make them emotional or not. I'm deeply hanging onto every word they're saying. Two meetings…I am very cognitively depleted after a meeting. Two meetings allows me that, to give all of my energy.

If I had four meetings in a day, my energy levels would drain, which would affect my ability to deliver what I love delivering, 100% of myself. So one of the things you said, Michael, you asked about. Pre-preparation, Michael, happens four to six weeks prior. So Lydia and I have virtually prepared for every single meeting in those ten weeks before surge has begun. So that was a key point that I guess I neglected to mention.

Michael: Okay. So ultimately, your surge cycles really end up being 14 to 16 weeks. It's almost four months' worth because there's a whole prep cycle.

Nick: I think that's perfectly fair.

Michael: And then there's a meeting cycle.

Nick: Yeah, right. Yeah, so I have always... I love this. Yeah, so surge for me in my brain was when the client meeting occurred. So the ten-week period, but you are absolutely correct. Six weeks prior to surge, Lydia and I begin preparing.

Michael: Okay. And so now I get it. February 15th is a convenient start date for surge. It basically means you come back from winter holidays and the New Year.

Nick: Correct. And get it going.

Michael: And you get underway, and you get four to six weeks, and you do your surge. And then May, June are really light. And then you come back from your Independence Day holiday, and you're off again. And so what? So May, June, and November, December end up being really light.

Nick: Right, yes. And it was all, imagine this, deliberately structured. Yeah, and I would say even the preparation. The firm is so systematized that...and we are so diligent in OCD about capturing the needed data for clients that meeting preparation isn't a wildly heavy lift. That being said, it allows me, by not having, again, depth over activity, for me to be able to sit there six weeks prior to surge beginning and just give my full attention to the client's situation, knowing I don't have any client meetings that day. I just sit in my office, I'm re-reviewing the follow-up email, the Zocks notes, I'm looking at their age, and everything.

Michael: So what do you do or cover in a typical surge meeting? What's actually in the meeting for you?

Nick: Part of the surge preparation is we send a pre-meeting email six weeks in advance. Some clients get us documents back, some don't.

But again, the firm is structured in a manner where even if a client got their documents back within a day of the meeting, I still have the bandwidth to be able to review. But in the pre-meeting email that we send to clients, it just reminds them, "Hey, friendly reminder, in six weeks we've got our meeting coming up. Here's the Zoom link. Attached, we wanted to let you know, here's the follow-up email from last time. If there's been any changes or pivots with respect to your action items or noteworthy points we discussed, please let us know. In addition, obviously we just got through tax season. Please send us an updated copy of your tax return." If they're still working, I request updated statements from their employer-sponsored plans, pension.

So the reason we start prepping six weeks in advance is because we want to give us plenty of leeway for us and the client to get us back homework items to review. So what gets discussed in the meeting is a re-analysis of everything that they had provided us. A review of what we talked about last time, and if anything's changed, we pull up their investments that they have under our stewardship.

And I think that this point is worth... I don't know if any of the other advisors experience this. If I have a 90-minute meeting with a client, less than 3 minutes is discussed about the millions of dollars they have under my management. I don't know if that's pervasive elsewhere. When I pull up their investments, we review risk levels to make sure risk models are appropriate, conservative, moderately conservative. Behind the scenes, I do tax loss, tax gain harvesting, all that fun stuff.

But I ask clients this question. I say this to them in the meeting, right? I'll have their $2 million portfolio, 5 different accounts, we review risk level. I'm like, "Hey, would you...?" And I say it with a little levity. I'm like, "Would you like me to nerd out and walk you through any changes that I've made, your asset allocation, the sub-asset classes you have exposure to, any of your underlying...?" If I have 100 households, 99 of them say, "No, thank you." So I don't know if that's just me or not, but...

Michael: So this is interesting. You ask them whether they want to go down that road. You don't just launch into it.

Nick: I never launch into it.

Michael: You ask them and give them the choice.

Nick: And I give them the choice. And they all say no, which then allows the rest of the meeting to talk about all the good juicy stuff. Tell me about retirement. What are we struggling with? What are we looking for? Tell me about the kids. What concerns?

Michael: So you do ask this fairly early on in the meeting. It's not like you're filling me with planning, and I'm like, "Oh, by the way, almost out of time, but do you want to invest in things?"

Nick: So look, in the spirit of me continuing down my scripted path, this is how the beginning of every meeting goes. "Mr. and Mrs. Smith, you guys are seasoned with respect to the structure of how we go through these meetings. As always, I'll refresh you. We're going to start with a review of your accounts, make sure beneficiaries are up to date, risk models are appropriate. We're then going to go through a review of all the documents that you had sent back to me. I have a couple items I want to review there.

I then want to review the follow-up email from last time to make sure that both parties are being accountable with respect to tracking the action items. And then finally, I have your retirement modeling pulled up with your updated expenses that I want to make sure the train's still on the right track." And then finally, of course, at the end of the meeting, we'll get our next meeting on the book.

So that is what I say at the beginning of every single meeting. And then they say, "Yup." And then I say, "Before we begin, knowing that that is our agenda for today, what would you like to make sure we add to today's meeting agenda?" That is an unwavering next statement before I dive in. And then I...

Michael: Okay, so they'll put forth anything that's on their mind. So when do you ask them, and do you want me to nerd out on all of the investment stuff?

Nick: Yeah, so I start with investments specifically because historically that's the lowest...in a weird way, right, that's how we're paid. That's the lowest lift. So I say, "Okay." So they'll say...

Michael: Because review your accounts is the first thing once we get past the agenda and whether they wanted to add anything.

Nick: Bam, bam, bam. You nailed it. Yes, yup. So then I'll jot... I'll say, "Anything else you want to make sure we add to the agenda, knowing that that's the agenda I have so far?" And they'll say, "Yeah, Nick, I really want to talk about Medicare. I want to do this. We'll do that." And then I'll say, "Perfect. I've jotted those down," and they'll say, "Great." And I'll say, "Well, let's dive into it. Let's start with the easy stuff first, and let's review the accounts." And then, to your point, it's three minutes or less, and then we go into all the deep planning work.

Michael: Okay. So as you go through these, I guess I'm trying to envision for your clientele, how often are clients fully covered by what happens in surges, and how often do they still call and need other meetings or questions or service work or such in between the surges and the off-season?

Nick: So 80% of my clients don't require anything. Now that doesn't mean I'm not communicating with them. I have a Friday newsletter that goes out. During my non-surge season, I'm starting to try to get more social with clients, with dinners and activities and golf rounds, and to try to get some non-business in there. But to what extent do they require more touches and activity after surge?

That's your question. And I would say most...80% of them don't need much. "Hey, we need to increase the distribution for this month," or, "Hey, I wanted to proactively deliver a topic for our next meeting." But there are 20% of clients that have very intensive things that have happened. I'll give you a perfect example. I have a client that works at the World Bank. It is the most complicated retirement system in the history of the world with respect to what they offer. It's complicated, it's nuanced.

Michael: Being in D.C. area, I had a World Bank client years ago.

Nick: Oh, my God.

Michael: Yeah, it is a whole special system.

Nick: Oh, my gosh, I feel so grateful that you can be empathetic to my plight here. So not only that, they offered an early retirement package, which was this long, contractual, complicated thing. Michael, when I tell you... So over the past...it has been the most complicated, nuanced analysis of my financial planning career.

And so things like that'll come up. And it'll be an all-hands-on-deck situation. I'll have a client that will have a job loss. I'll have a client that is getting divorced. I'll have a client whose mom had a health event, and they're just coming to me because they always want to use...when they're stuck on something, they just come to Nick first.

So to what extent? The extent is that this is one of the reasons why the capacity constraint for me is around where I'm at right now. And only two relationships per year, because when the 20% of clients come to me with all-hands-on-deck type situations outside of surge, I have the ability to be all hands on deck with them, navigate them unequivocally, and give them deep work and time.

And so one of the things with that is, I don't know how many clients will reach out, to what extent their issue will be intensive or immersive. But I know that I have structured the business such that I have the space to give them all. And I have always had a fear that if growth continued and this World Bank client retired, I wouldn't have been able to give that individual the time and energy that I would have otherwise been able to give in today's structure.

Using Non-Surge Periods To Work On His Business [1:11:14]

Michael: So what else happens for you between surges? Because I know for some advisors, it's like, "This is my open season to go do my marketing growthy things." That's not your focus. I'm assuming...

Nick: I love it, I love it.

Michael: ...two new clients a year is mostly maintenance because one or two sadly pass or transition or something every year. So it's not growth engine time. So what else between surges?

Nick: Outstanding. Yeah, so I have this little person on my shoulder. I guess every entrepreneur does. A little bit of paranoia, right? Just a little bit of...so while I'm not marketing per se, the way I'll say it is, I am trying to future-proof the business. I am taking the...so non-surge season for me is working on the business, not in the business. I am looking at an eagle-eye view of the practice. Staffing, technology, processes, investment models. I'm running reports about client ages, distributions they're taking. Also, I have calendar reminders set up at the end of the year for tax gain and tax loss harvesting. I have reminders set up for RMDs. So I'm working on the business, not in the business. And I'm trying to future-proof it. So I hired an AI process optimization guy. I hired an AEO [Answer Engine Optimization] guy, not because I...

Michael: Who did you find to do AI optimization? Who's that guy?

Nick: His name's Jon Cook. And he has turned into what I would call a personal friend. And he is the most fascinating individual I've met in this space. And his mission is to absorb every new piece of technology that is coming out that touches financial advisors and understand how it can be helpful for them and how it can uniquely integrate into their processes. So I worked with him, he created a process map for me.

Because step number one is, "Nick, how do you do things today? Let's map it all out." And then it's, "Okay, what technology is approved by LPL that could be additive to your clients and make your processes more effective and efficient?" Right? So that was like a this summer project where it felt like a surge season, right, with respect to how much work was going into that. So again, that was long-winded, but non-surge season for me is working on the business, not in the business, and dissecting it and analyzing it. And what can I do better? And all those fun things.

Michael: And so from your end, then you are at capacity overall because the surge seasons are full enough. You like your two-month off-seasons. That's the right balance for you.

Nick: That's the right balance. Yeah, and I think there's that word capacity, right? It's opaque, it's nebulous. It means different things for different people. Some people's capacity is 400. Someone's capacity that's meeting with clients quarterly is different than annually. So for me, I like to define capacity as just like...

When I was thinking about building Ibello Wealth, I'm like, "What is the service offering that I want to deliver to the demographic of the clients I serve? And what is my enough from an income perspective? What is my enough from a work-life balance perspective?" And I put all those together, and that's where the 100 clients and 150...to be frank, in my brain, I was like, "All right, 100 clients, $100 million, that sounds good." And things just went higher than that, which is great because I kept the same number of clients.

But yes, for capacity, as I view it today, I am at a point now where the revenue from the business sustains the lifestyle that my family and I have always dreamed of, in combination with providing me a level of work-life balance that allows me to be deeply present and attentive with my young family, in combination with the bandwidth to do the deep level of work that I've always dreamed of doing for the clients that I serve.

How Nick Decided What Was ‘Enough' For His Practice [1:15:33]

Michael: So how do you handle the ever-present advisor discussion of various labels? But my favorite is, if you're not growing, you're dying, because that's very high stakes. How do you think about that dynamic in a world where you're saying, "But I feel like I've got enough?"

Nick: Yeah. So I think it was so easy for me, Michael. I think it was so easy for me because I have worked since I was 13 years old. I have never stopped. And it only was accelerated in my 20s, the box leads, as an example. The answer to your question is it's different people playing different games.

And for me, I appreciate a for-profit business that wants to grow, expand, increase margin, sell, elevate their terminal value. I appreciate that. I respect that. For me, I think that I just realized that I'm just building this little corner, a little spot in the world, unapologetically mine, my staff, the clients I have the privilege of serving, something small enough to care deeply about, but connected enough to feel that actually matters.

And when client advisors said, "Well, you could hire another advisor, and you could train another," yeah, I could do that, and I could make the business bigger, and I could make more money, but I was unwavering on my enough because by doing that, there is a cost. Yet an extra dollar doesn't move the needle of my life happiness anymore. An extra bike ride with my 4-year-old does. So it's so easy for me when that dialogue happens because I'm not abrasive to it. I'm not combative. I'm deeply in appreciation and awe of the never-ending growth engines. I just get to smile and sit and say, "I'm happy. I'm where I'd like to be."

What Surprised Nick The Most Building His Advisory Business [1:17:36]

Michael: So what surprised you the most on this journey of building your advisory business?

Nick: I would say what surprised me the most was starting to say no to clients. That was remarkably challenging to me. Even though I said I was always going to do it, and I built myself up, like, "Well, you'll say no," I get immense joy from being helpful and producing value. And so that surprised me the most. The other thing that surprised me the most is the emotional weight of making every decision and being accountable to every decision.

Michael: When you made it your own firm.

Nick: Yes. As a sole practitioner, you make the decision on your broker-dealer. You make the decision on who you hire. You make the decision on the investment management operations of how you're managing the millions of dollars these clients have entrusted you with. You are your compliance. Yes, I have LPL as my broker-dealer, but I ain't a W-2 employee anymore. I need to be super tight. So what surprised me was the fatigue, decision fatigue, and the weight of always auditing those decisions, which is my job to do as a business owner.

Michael: Thus, taking two months after each surge to take a fresh pass on all of them..

Nick: Exactly.

The Low Point On Nick's Journey [1:19:18]

Michael: So what was the low point for you?

Nick: So I would say...so there's two. I think that the low point of my career was making a minimal salary with 0 clients, 12-hour days, long nights, sacrificing my weekends while my friends were partying in the city and I was studying CFP and cold calling, repeated rejection, again, trivial income, deep imposter syndrome, and a long commute. I felt physically and psychologically depleted, deflated, and unhopeful.

So I think I can reflect on tearing up on a commute home after I did...it was...I did a late cold calling session. I was calling people from 6:30 to 8 p.m. or something. And I was exhausted beyond measure. I was driving home in the dark, and I didn't have two pennies to rub together. And I think that I have a vivid memory of that. I think that would be my low point.

Michael: So what pulled you through? Just a lot of folks leave the business at some point in that window when it goes on a couple of years. So what pulled you through despite...? I think unhopeful was one of the words you used. That's a very despairing word to keep going.

Nick: Yeah, and that's what it felt like. I'm going to answer your question. There was a podcast I listened to with Will Smith, and Will Smith was talking about how he goes, "My cardio is not good." But he goes, "If you put me on a treadmill next to you, I will die before I let you beat me." And he said, "You probably will beat me, but I will die in the process of trying to not let that happen."

That was impactful to me with respect to...obviously, very inflated there. No one wants to die here. But I think that I am just wired in a way that I was going to keep...there wasn't some external factor that kept me going besides my own wiring. I wasn't going to...failure wasn't an option. Failure wasn't an option.

In combination with... I had my girlfriend at the time, who's now my wife, who provided unwavering support and helpfulness, quite literally ensuring that I had the caloric intake that I needed to keep going and the love and the presence that I needed on Sundays to keep going. And again, I had that sticky note on my window, and the sticky note was written when I graduated college, and my handwriting has gotten better over the years, every year, but the handwriting on it was my chicken-scratch handwriting that said, "Be willing to work a few years like most won't so you can live a life that most can't." And that sticky note remained the first thing I saw every morning. So again, outside of my wife, the way I'm wired, and that sticky note, that's what got me through.

Michael: And so then what was the other low point?

Nick: Yeah, so the low point of launch. So unfortunately, there was litigation that I had to go through. I can't talk about it, but there was litigation. When I launched my...

Michael: Because you broke away from someone else.

Nick: That's correct. That's correct. So I had to navigate, endure, and overcome that, in combination with my wife was about two months pregnant at the time, in combination that she had just stopped working after an 11-year lucrative career at the same company to support my mission, in combination with we had a two-year-old, in combination with my income went from a lot to zero overnight. Zero. So we had a lifestyle that we had built up.

Michael: So this was not an expected separation. This was an unexpected separation.

Nick: Correct. Correct. And in combination with it was such a fire drill to get the launch up and running, get to LPL, and a lot of yada, yada, yada. When one of my clients had called me and were like, "Well, Nick, we want to come with you," yada, yada, yada. And it was a large client, and I had a transposition error on their account paperwork. I had a transposition error on their last name. And this is a moment where clients are a little bit tentative. And they were like, "Nick, our names are spelled wrong."

And you combine all...they ended up coming, and everything's great. But my wife walked the low point was I had a little exercise equipment in my basement because I always worked out every single morning. It was non-negotiable to get my exercise in. And my wife walked down, and I was just crying my eyes out on the bench press machine. I walked down, and my hands were in my face, and I was crying. I was not exercising. And that, I think, makes me emotional even talking about it. I think that moment was the low point of the launch.

Nick's Advice To His Younger Self And For Newer Advisors [1:25:21]

Michael: So are there pearls of wisdom you have now from a decade of doing this, that you wish you could go back and tell you five, ten years ago? What do you know now you wish you knew then?

Nick: If you want to be a producing advisor or you want to build something with real autonomy, you have to be...to get to that point, you have to be prepared to work an unhealthy number of hours, and most people won't get it, and most people won't be willing, but I've never seen anything meaningful accomplished without relentless work ethic. If you want to build a life that most can't, you have to be willing to grind in a way that most people won't.

I would also say, if you have a chip on your shoulder, use it, it'll fire you up, it'll fire the team up. And then finally, I would say this coming off the hit, so reps and persistence. Build your reputation, integrity, preparation, and follow-through before you build your brand. I would say study all the business models and fee structures out there to see what's congruent with you.

And finally, I would choose a problem, a client problem that really interests you, and learn it deeply. Those are some of the things that just came to my mind there. Oh, and one more, build a firm that lets you do your best work and live a full life, not simply the largest firm the market will let you build. Those are some of the things that I tell people.

What Success Means To Nick [1:26:53]

Michael: So as we come to the end, it's a podcast about success, and one of the themes that comes up is that word success means different things to different people. It shifts for us as we go through seasons of life. And so you built this. It's objectively a very successful business, as you're well over a million dollars of revenue and running so well for the clients that you serve. And so the business seems to be in this amazing place. How do you define success for yourself personally at this point?

Nick: So in speaking about life success, I think for me, I wouldn't say it's a single number or achievement. I think it's living a balanced and intentional life across the main domains of family, work, friendships, health, and community give back, while recognizing that different seasons require different trade-offs, but nothing truly important should be neglected for too long. And I would also say there is a power in having and maintaining, through the life journey, a sense of playfulness and a real zest for everything you do, bringing passion, curiosity, and enthusiasm to the people you surround yourselves with. If I can do that and doing work that I'm proud of, that's success.

Michael: I love the framing that maybe the trade-offs look different in different seasons of life. I feel like you've exemplified that with the intentionality of, "Here's what I did in my 20s so that I can live a different life as I approach my 40s." But it's powerful to hear it stated that way.

Nick: Yeah, well, I appreciate it. And this has been such a fun conversation.

Michael: Likewise. Thank you, Nick, for joining us on the "Financial Advisor Success" podcast.

Nick: You are more than welcome. Thank you for having me.